|
|
Technics direct drive turntables
Apparently Panny, who own the Technics brand, is to cease production
of the Technics turntable range: http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/upo...er_local_d.php http://www.factmag.com/2010/11/18/pa...cs-turntables/ http://www.philebrity.com/2010/12/04...-of-existence/ Though neither the Panny nor Technics site's have updated their "news" links since 10th dec. |
Technics direct drive turntables
"Fed Up Lurker" wrote in message ... Apparently Panny, who own the Technics brand, is to cease production of the Technics turntable range: http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/upo...er_local_d.php http://www.factmag.com/2010/11/18/pa...cs-turntables/ http://www.philebrity.com/2010/12/04...-of-existence/ Though neither the Panny nor Technics site's have updated their "news" links since 10th dec. It'll be interesting to see if all the 'clones' remain in production! |
Technics direct drive turntables
On 19/12/2010 20:22, Keith G wrote:
"Fed Up Lurker" wrote in message ... Apparently Panny, who own the Technics brand, is to cease production of the Technics turntable range: http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/upo...er_local_d.php http://www.factmag.com/2010/11/18/pa...cs-turntables/ http://www.philebrity.com/2010/12/04...-of-existence/ Though neither the Panny nor Technics site's have updated their "news" links since 10th dec. It'll be interesting to see if all the 'clones' remain in production! It is odd (to me!) that turntables in general are still in production, and if anything seem to be growing. Aren't there enough around for everyone? But I do rate Technics TTs, seem very well designed and screwed together, and if imitation has anything to do with flattery: http://www.superfi.co.uk/index.cfm/p...roduct_ID/6718 Curiously close specification, including weight, but not including wow/flutter, to the SL1200. Rob |
Technics direct drive turntables
"Rob" wrote in message eb.com... On 19/12/2010 20:22, Keith G wrote: "Fed Up Lurker" wrote in message ... Apparently Panny, who own the Technics brand, is to cease production of the Technics turntable range: http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/upo...er_local_d.php http://www.factmag.com/2010/11/18/pa...cs-turntables/ http://www.philebrity.com/2010/12/04...-of-existence/ Though neither the Panny nor Technics site's have updated their "news" links since 10th dec. It'll be interesting to see if all the 'clones' remain in production! It is odd (to me!) that turntables in general are still in production, and if anything seem to be growing. Aren't there enough around for everyone? I don't understand why stop making something that still sells? Too small beer for the big guys to bother with? But I do rate Technics TTs, seem very well designed and screwed together, and if imitation has anything to do with flattery: http://www.superfi.co.uk/index.cfm/p...roduct_ID/6718 Curiously close specification, including weight, but not including wow/flutter, to the SL1200. There are a number of manufacturers making similar decks: for example there are 15 different brands on offer he http://www.djkit.com/category.php?id...FQkf4QodUhXUog |
Technics direct drive turntables
In article , Keith G
wrote: It is odd (to me!) that turntables in general are still in production, and if anything seem to be growing. Aren't there enough around for everyone? I don't understand why stop making something that still sells? Too small beer for the big guys to bother with? You may have just answered your own question. A large company may have no real interest in low sales volume x low return items. Their interest is making profit, not turntables. There are a number of manufacturers making similar decks: for example there are 15 different brands on offer he http://www.djkit.com/category.php?id...FQkf4QodUhXUog I wonder how many of the 'direct drive' ones simply OEM from Technics. Not all the items listed are 'direct drive'. Slainte, Jim -- Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me. Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html |
Technics direct drive turntables
"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message ... In article , Keith G wrote: It is odd (to me!) that turntables in general are still in production, and if anything seem to be growing. Aren't there enough around for everyone? I don't understand why stop making something that still sells? Too small beer for the big guys to bother with? You may have just answered your own question. A large company may have no real interest in low sales volume x low return items. Their interest is making profit, not turntables. There are a number of manufacturers making similar decks: for example there are 15 different brands on offer he http://www.djkit.com/category.php?id...FQkf4QodUhXUog I wonder how many of the 'direct drive' ones simply OEM from Technics. Not all the items listed are 'direct drive'. I doubt Technics made for anyone else but there certainly appears to be identical decks being offered by a number of different 'names' in that Brands List. |
Technics direct drive turntables
On 20/12/2010 18:30, David Pitt wrote:
wrote: On 19/12/2010 20:22, Keith G wrote: [snip SL1200 - The End] It'll be interesting to see if all the 'clones' remain in production! It is odd (to me!) that turntables in general are still in production, and if anything seem to be growing. Aren't there enough around for everyone? But I do rate Technics TTs, seem very well designed and screwed together, and if imitation has anything to do with flattery: http://www.superfi.co.uk/index.cfm/p...roduct_ID/6718 Curiously close specification, including weight, but not including wow/flutter, to the SL1200. The audio-technica AT-LP120-USB was reviewed in HiFi World Nov 2010. In short it might be a "look alike" but it is not a full clone of the Technics. The weights are similar but the cheapo job has a lighter turntable and added "ballast" in the chassis. The motor also appears to be less powerful hence the poorer wow and flutter. Ah, thanks for that, interesting. |
Technics direct drive turntables
"David Pitt" wrote in message ... Rob wrote: On 19/12/2010 20:22, Keith G wrote: [snip SL1200 - The End] It'll be interesting to see if all the 'clones' remain in production! It is odd (to me!) that turntables in general are still in production, and if anything seem to be growing. Aren't there enough around for everyone? But I do rate Technics TTs, seem very well designed and screwed together, and if imitation has anything to do with flattery: http://www.superfi.co.uk/index.cfm/p...roduct_ID/6718 Curiously close specification, including weight, but not including wow/flutter, to the SL1200. The audio-technica AT-LP120-USB was reviewed in HiFi World Nov 2010. In short it might be a "look alike" but it is not a full clone of the Technics. The weights are similar but the cheapo job has a lighter turntable and added "ballast" in the chassis. The motor also appears to be less powerful hence the poorer wow and flutter. All as I would suspect from a cheaper offering - it's not for nothing the Technics has been the No. 1 choice for DJs worldwide for the last 35 years! |
Technics direct drive turntables
On 20/12/2010 16:23, Jim Lesurf wrote:
In , Keith G wrote: It is odd (to me!) that turntables in general are still in production, and if anything seem to be growing. Aren't there enough around for everyone? I don't understand why stop making something that still sells? Too small beer for the big guys to bother with? I have the commercial acumen of an investment banker - these things really need to be spelled out to me :-) You may have just answered your own question. A large company may have no real interest in low sales volume x low return items. Their interest is making profit, not turntables. There are a number of manufacturers making similar decks: for example there are 15 different brands on offer he http://www.djkit.com/category.php?id...FQkf4QodUhXUog Who'd have thought! The Reloop 6000 looks to be the disco daddy. I wonder how many of the 'direct drive' ones simply OEM from Technics. Not all the items listed are 'direct drive'. The top plate is just too close to the Technics not to be Technics on some of those, or some sort of pattern/clone? Might Technics still be made in Japan (of Chinese parts?!), and the clones China? |
Technics direct drive turntables
I had no idea they were still being made in any case. I have one of those
sl5 machines with the pararell tracking arm with an Ortofon cart in it. It is actually very good and ideal for me now I have no sight. Brian -- Brian Gaff....Note, this account does not accept Bcc: email. graphics are great, but the blind can't hear them Email: __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________ "Fed Up Lurker" wrote in message ... Apparently Panny, who own the Technics brand, is to cease production of the Technics turntable range: http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/upo...er_local_d.php http://www.factmag.com/2010/11/18/pa...cs-turntables/ http://www.philebrity.com/2010/12/04...-of-existence/ Though neither the Panny nor Technics site's have updated their "news" links since 10th dec. |
Technics direct drive turntables
In article ,
Keith G wrote: All as I would suspect from a cheaper offering - it's not for nothing the Technics has been the No. 1 choice for DJs worldwide for the last 35 years! The requirements for a DJ turntable are very different from a high quality domestic one. -- *Forget the Joneses, I keep us up with the Simpsons. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
Technics direct drive turntables
"Keith G" wrote in message
... What price these Technic decks when they start becoming scarce? Start here with one for 1,200 quid: http://www.decks.co.uk/products/technics/sl1210mk5g That will be a long time. There were one hell of a lot sold in the early nighties when the rave scene went main stream. |
Technics direct drive turntables
"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message ... In article , Keith G wrote: "Jim Lesurf" wrote in message ... I wonder how many of the 'direct drive' ones simply OEM from Technics. Not all the items listed are 'direct drive'. I doubt Technics made for anyone else but there certainly appears to be identical decks being offered by a number of different 'names' in that Brands List. And if you look, for example, at the article on the old JBE turntable in this month's HFN you can see it used an OEM direct drive. Described as being the 'best' and 'proven' from 'Japan', etc. Alas such marketing blurbs often cover for the actual source of OEM. My experience with many large Japanese companies is that they routinely supplied components and OEM - after they'd used their newest and best in their own models for a year or two first. Looking at other items these days like displays, etc, I get the impression this continues. Simply good business practice to maximise the return on having developed and set up a production line. Use the latest and best in your own models, and then make the items avalable to others when you move on to your new components yourself. This also undercuts others from putting in the investment to develop a competing component. :-) No idea to what extend the Technics brand name covers this. But I'd be surprised if the company never did/does it. Although they - and their buyers - may wish to avoid saying so to the end users. :-) I base my opinion only on the fact that Technics was a smaller brand than some other famous names and that, in many years of reading various mags, I don't recall ever seeing anything like 'made by Technics' or similar when referring to a different manufacturer. Obviously, I could be wrong - moot now that the Technics brand has been buried! |
Technics direct drive turntables
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message ... In article , Keith G wrote: All as I would suspect from a cheaper offering - it's not for nothing the Technics has been the No. 1 choice for DJs worldwide for the last 35 years! The requirements for a DJ turntable are very different from a high quality domestic one. My comment referred to the comparison between the superior Technics 'DJ' decks and the lesser, lighter clones. |
Technics direct drive turntables
"David" wrote in message ... "Keith G" wrote in message ... What price these Technic decks when they start becoming scarce? Start here with one for 1,200 quid: http://www.decks.co.uk/products/technics/sl1210mk5g That will be a long time. There were one hell of a lot sold in the early nighties when the rave scene went main stream. I was talking about the price of the remaining brand new stock in the shops, not secondhand stuff. |
Technics direct drive turntables
In article ,
Keith G wrote: I base my opinion only on the fact that Technics was a smaller brand than some other famous names and that, in many years of reading various mags, I don't recall ever seeing anything like 'made by Technics' or similar when referring to a different manufacturer. Obviously, I could be wrong - moot now that the Technics brand has been buried! Technics is part of Panasonic. -- *Why do psychics have to ask you for your name? * Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
Technics direct drive turntables
"Keith G" wrote in message
... What price these Technic decks when they start becoming scarce? Start here with one for 1,200 quid: http://www.decks.co.uk/products/technics/sl1210mk5g That will be a long time. There were one hell of a lot sold in the early nighties when the rave scene went main stream. I was talking about the price of the remaining brand new stock in the shops, not secondhand stuff. If they keep them at that price I doubt they'll ever sell. There are so many 2nd hand around that DJs would use those, and hifi entusiasts will go for something a little more refined or look for a decent old SP10. |
Technics direct drive turntables
On 22/12/2010 16:41, David wrote:
"Keith wrote in message ... What price these Technic decks when they start becoming scarce? Start here with one for 1,200 quid: http://www.decks.co.uk/products/technics/sl1210mk5g That will be a long time. There were one hell of a lot sold in the early nighties when the rave scene went main stream. I was talking about the price of the remaining brand new stock in the shops, not secondhand stuff. If they keep them at that price I doubt they'll ever sell. There are so many 2nd hand around that DJs would use those, and hifi entusiasts will go for something a little more refined or look for a decent old SP10. What exactly are the substantial differences between domestic and pro-DJ? Things like quick-start and pitch control I can understand, but you can easily see these things on domestic decks. I suppose my question is really: why don't people just buy a pro deck and be done with it? I've been using a Technics 1200/SME arm for a while now. I can certainly detect difference between this and, say, a Roksan Xerxes or Lenco B55 I have, but I'm not so sure about qualitative difference - enjoy them all :-) Rob |
Technics direct drive turntables
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message ... In article , Keith G wrote: I base my opinion only on the fact that Technics was a smaller brand than some other famous names and that, in many years of reading various mags, I don't recall ever seeing anything like 'made by Technics' or similar when referring to a different manufacturer. Obviously, I could be wrong - moot now that the Technics brand has been buried! Technics is part of Panasonic. Yes, the Matsu****a group (sp?) but the Technics name has been ended AFAIK...?? The phrase I saw was summat along the lines like Technics didn't want to be associated with modern, 'built to a budget' flyaway products so they would rather shut down completely. Probably a load of blx though unless anyone can confirm...?? |
Technics direct drive turntables
"David" wrote in message ... "Keith G" wrote in message ... What price these Technic decks when they start becoming scarce? Start here with one for 1,200 quid: http://www.decks.co.uk/products/technics/sl1210mk5g That will be a long time. There were one hell of a lot sold in the early nighties when the rave scene went main stream. I was talking about the price of the remaining brand new stock in the shops, not secondhand stuff. If they keep them at that price I doubt they'll ever sell. There are so many 2nd hand around that DJs would use those, and hifi entusiasts will go for something a little more refined or look for a decent old SP10. I'm not sure that even DJs would buy old ex-DJ decks unless they were very little used! |
Technics direct drive turntables
"Rob" wrote in message b.com... On 22/12/2010 16:41, David wrote: "Keith wrote in message ... What price these Technic decks when they start becoming scarce? Start here with one for 1,200 quid: http://www.decks.co.uk/products/technics/sl1210mk5g That will be a long time. There were one hell of a lot sold in the early nighties when the rave scene went main stream. I was talking about the price of the remaining brand new stock in the shops, not secondhand stuff. If they keep them at that price I doubt they'll ever sell. There are so many 2nd hand around that DJs would use those, and hifi entusiasts will go for something a little more refined or look for a decent old SP10. What exactly are the substantial differences between domestic and pro-DJ? Things like quick-start and pitch control I can understand, but you can easily see these things on domestic decks. I suppose my question is really: why don't people just buy a pro deck and be done with it? I've been using a Technics 1200/SME arm for a while now. I can certainly detect difference between this and, say, a Roksan Xerxes or Lenco B55 I have, but I'm not so sure about qualitative difference - enjoy them all :-) That's the point - these different decks all have their own strengths. Nothing wrong with using the 1210 fo 'hifi' if you can live with the arm and headshell. I could and did but there's some who have fitted 'better' arms to these decks. I guess my problem is I just slap the records on and listen to what I get! :-) |
Technics direct drive turntables
"Keith G" wrote:
I base my opinion only on the fact that Technics was a smaller brand than some other famous names and that, in many years of reading various mags, I don't recall ever seeing anything like 'made by Technics' or similar when referring to a different manufacturer. Obviously, I could be wrong - moot now that the Technics brand has been buried! I am continually impressed and sad by the fact that mags like HFN have many ads for second hand equipment and rarely any Technics is offered. Given some of it is highly sought after I have resorted to thinking that they never did penetrate into England by much, mostly because it was not kosher to buy japanese if you were in England and need a stereo component. I am inclined to believe that sales people would turn you on to english brands, or failing that a european/american brand rather than something from Japan. This tendency makes any used Technics out there either not available for those of us who cannot gauge the actual availability by showing up on fleamarkets and fairs. Or it was thrown out long ago in favour of something else that floggers thought might better attract customers at their stall. Noone wants to drag something heavy around to markets when they think any other brand and model would sell better. As a foreigner I can of course use any online market place to scour for the stuff I collect, but having already gotten two each of the ESL57 and Quad II required to feel sufficiently old-school-on-a-budget, I am also looking at a whole lot of a appealing other old english stuff - while I am actually trying to fullfill my Technics collection. I cannot count the times when I have wondered if I should add something like a Radford amp as well. I still need a tube preamp. But logistic of getting these things to me and the probability of poor handling by the carrier means I am looking for something for my Technics collection, but the few things I need are far between and usually requires a lot of work too, which also ties up funds. One should always add sufficiently to restore an item of the past, as usually noone else did much to it since it was bought. I also fail to see the fascination many sellers /(and buyers) have with New Old Stock. To think that something that sat around unused for 20+ years will be like it was just made. Rubber parts and caps will need tending. For 5 years of collecting I am only short a few items in my Technics collection, but I am running out of affordable ways to get the device to then spend money to restore it. Typically now I am left with all the expensive ways to obtain it, and then face spending even more making it just somewhat semi useful as well as tolerable to listen to. There are still a lot fo Technics equipment around, but mostly it is turntables and perhaps cassette decks. They made fine equipment but all of it needs servicing just like any other in order to perform its best. A collector may place mroe value in ownership than anyone else. But people relying on top performing gear may want to stick with current productiongear, or acknowledge that they have to pay dearly to aquire, refurbish and maintain vintage gear - of any brand. -Mikkel |
Technics direct drive turntables
In article , Mikkel Breiler
wrote: I am continually impressed and sad by the fact that mags like HFN have many ads for second hand equipment and rarely any Technics is offered. Given some of it is highly sought after I have resorted to thinking that they never did penetrate into England by much, mostly because it was not kosher to buy japanese if you were in England and need a stereo component. They penetrated UK well enough for me to buy one (which I still have and use). However back in circa the 1980s the UK mags generally droned on about the 'magic' of belt drive and Linn in particular. Anyone who didn't prefer them to Japanese DD was regarded as being cloth-eared or an idiot. FWIW having used a Linn system for show demos and tests I had no real wish to personally own/use one at home, and preferred a Technics DD turntable. It still works nicely. Also IIRC Linn, etc, tended to have both a higher markup and a higher price. So some dealers - who then could legally have controlled-area dealerships with effective price-control - could treat them as a license to print money *if* they obtained a dealership. Given the way magazines talked about them such items virtually sold themselves in the shop. I wonder if most buyers even tried listening to the DD alternatives at all.Have my doubts about how many dealers back then would have suggested they do so. :-) That said, since I used to work designing equipment for a UK maker I am certainly sympathetic to the idea of encouraging UK citizens to consider buying UK equipment, etc. :-) But only if there isn't some other factor that overloads that. Like performance for price. ;- Slainte, Jim -- Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me. Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html |
Technics direct drive turntables
"Mikkel Breiler" wrote
I am continually impressed and sad by the fact that mags like HFN have many ads for second hand equipment and rarely any Technics is offered. Given some of it is highly sought after I have resorted to thinking that they never did penetrate into England by much, mostly because it was not kosher to buy japanese if you were in England and need a stereo component. I am inclined to believe that sales people would turn you on to english brands, or failing that a european/american brand rather than something from Japan. I don't agree with this at all. Back in the 1970s there was a lot of Technics equipment sold, just as there was plenty of Akai, Pioneer etc. If anything it was the American and, to a lesser extent, continental European brands that were harder to get hold of. If Technics stuff is hard to come by second hand now, I suggest it's because it was junked when it was replaced by something newer. Technics was never a prestige brand, so it never had the second-hand value of, say, Quad or Leak. David. |
Technics direct drive turntables
Keith G wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message ... In article , Keith G wrote: I base my opinion only on the fact that Technics was a smaller brand than some other famous names and that, in many years of reading various mags, I don't recall ever seeing anything like 'made by Technics' or similar when referring to a different manufacturer. Obviously, I could be wrong - moot now that the Technics brand has been buried! Technics is part of Panasonic. Yes, the Matsu****a group (sp?) but the Technics name has been ended AFAIK...?? The phrase I saw was summat along the lines like Technics didn't want to be associated with modern, 'built to a budget' flyaway products so they would rather shut down completely. Probably a load of blx though unless anyone can confirm...?? Not totally shut down... http://www.panasonic.co.uk/html/en_GB/290187/index.html -- David Kennedy http://www.anindianinexile.com |
Technics direct drive turntables
"Mikkel Breiler" wrote in message ... "Keith G" wrote: I base my opinion only on the fact that Technics was a smaller brand than some other famous names and that, in many years of reading various mags, I don't recall ever seeing anything like 'made by Technics' or similar when referring to a different manufacturer. Obviously, I could be wrong - moot now that the Technics brand has been buried! Technics ceased being it's own brand back in the 90's. National Panasonic who own the Technics name will maintain it as a brand as such, aimed at the niche DJ market - headphones, variable pitch "dj" cd players etc. But as an example the execellent SL-12** range was only a hit amongst the semi-pro brigade for it's pitch and scratch ability, picked up speed instantly etc. But in the true pro/broadcast world it was the German EMD console that was used. The BBC still has them but broadcasts are now all digital sourced. Technics hasn't had it's own production line in many years. There is a mythology surrounding turntables, direct drives are supposedly major criminals, and the clumsy 3 point suspended belt drive is the cream of the crop, total codswallop of course. Here in UK a "specialist" home grown turntable has been bigged up for decades, the long implication being it has it's own unique sonic footprint, absolute ********! It was based on 70's 3- point suspended belt drives from the likes of Thorens, Pioneer etc. What dictates the sonics are the cartridge, correct alignment and tracking, and the RIAA curve of the phono stage. So the same cartridge into the same phono stage will sound identical regardless if on a direct drive or belt drive, if both decks are correctly configured and isolated then there will be no discernable difference. And like you, I believe the Technics direct drive range are vastly underrated, and of course there are the budget clones from the likes of Vestrex, Audia Technica etc which infringed on Technics market. And of course the evil of compressed formats, downloads, and hand held devices all played their part. I am continually impressed and sad by the fact that mags like HFN have many ads for second hand equipment and rarely any Technics is offered. Given some of it is highly sought after I have resorted to thinking that they never did penetrate into England by much, mostly because it was not kosher to buy japanese if you were in England and need a stereo component. I am inclined to believe that sales people would turn you on to english brands, or failing that a european/american brand rather than something from Japan. Very little comes out of Japan these days, nearly everything comes off the same Chinese production lines. If it's an iPod or a Sony Erriccson, a Plasma or an an LED, It will come out of China. Slightly off topic, but Sony and Phillips bought into LG and Tosh teamed up with Samsung - TSST corp, anyway whatever the badge on the hardware, it will have come off the same production lines. .. Just three randomly plucked examples just now via a google search. http://www.multizoneav.com/Product/P...5H/GoogleBase/ http://www.lg.com/uk/tv-audio-video/...v-47LX9900.jsp http://www.sony.co.uk/product/t46-hx-series/kdl-46hx903 They may have slightly different asthetics, and a few additional features, but the panel and the "engine"? Can you discern what is the basic differences? I have very little time for subjective review mags, there is one publication with which it is unknown who wrote the subjective review, but they are journalists first and foremost and within that publishing house they get shuffled around, six months on a gardening mag, temp editor of a camping and caravan title etc, you know the sort of thing. But the title you mention in your paragraph above, HFN, at least sticks to the correct principle and it's editor PMi and his integrity has never been in question, and as a tech journo his importance over the past 20 years is established. Interestingly a contributor to that mag is also a regular in one these groups crossposted in this thread, oddly with his technical background he only has an opinion column in that title? I've just had another google browse, that mags feb issue has a test/review of a a hideously expensive and pig-ugly speaker, which will be of no interest to me, but also an investigation into "DIY Hi-Fi - Wild frontier?", thats grabbed my attention so once this is posted I'm off to WH Smiths to get a copy! This tendency makes any used Technics out there either not available for those of us who cannot gauge the actual availability by showing up on fleamarkets and fairs. Or it was thrown out long ago in favour of something else that floggers thought might better attract customers at their stall. Noone wants to drag something heavy around to markets when they think any other brand and model would sell better. You're not doing it right. There is of course ebay and gumtree, and here in UK we have Cash Converters from which I have sourced some gems, recently an esata (external) 1tb Lacie HDD for 25 quid. Here in London we have some excellent "pre-owned" outlets, in King St in Hammersmith there is true bargain basement outlet from which I have sourced a number of TDA1541/1543 cd players for NOS'ing, never paying more than 30 quid. And in Bell street just behind Edgware Rd tube is a haven from whom a number of years back I sourced a 777ES Dat and a 777ES cd player. Currently he has a pristine and very alluring Studer DAT, but I must resist. It is simple, whatever your global location, if there is a specific Technics model you seek, just google it adding your location, so I would do: "Technics SL***, +London" If it's for sale it will be online and if in your location it will be in the search results. snipped Technics was always a big name in the UK market, in the 70's Lasky's, Dixons etc along with the likes of Trio/Kenwood, JVC and Hitachi (Yes, they were mainstream HiFi brands once) I work in a male dominated industry (railways) with plenty of disposable income and gadget fetish nerds. Technics is a name all are familiar with, and that brands turntables are owned by many. Unfortunately it's brands such as Accuphase, Krell, Wadia, Luxman, and many more that failed to "penetrate" the UK mindset. Mainly because they were silly money and ugly. (But still very enticing) Removed one usenet group from this post - it's full of nutters. |
Technics direct drive turntables
"Bob Latham" wrote in message
... In article , Jim Lesurf wrote: Given the way magazines talked about them such items virtually sold themselves in the shop. I wonder if most buyers even tried listening to the DD alternatives at all.Have my doubts about how many dealers back then would have suggested they do so. My first turntable was either a very cheap Garrard or BSR can't remember but around 1977 I got a Technics DD turntable with SME arm and Sure V15 cartridge. It was an SL150 and there is a picture of one here http://www.vintagetechnics.info/images/sl150catalog.jpg To cut a long story short I eventually got a Linn LP12, Ittok and Asak. Now you can say what you like but the dynamics, imaging and tone of that thing was/is glorious to my ears. I still have it and still hugely prefer it to anything I've heard since. That's not to say that it's not coloration that I like, it may well be but I love it. For me it made the Technics combo sound lifeless, flat and uninvolving. I expect your milage to vary. Are you seriously suggesting that using a Linn turntable rather than a Technics one makes any difference at all to the "dynamics, imaging and tone"? The cartridge, and to a lesser extent the arm will make an audible difference, but not the turntable. Any turntable that goes round at the right speed, with minimal speed variation (wow) and rumble, will sound the same as any other. David. |
Technics direct drive turntables
"Bob Latham" wrote in message
... In article , David Looser wrote: Are you seriously suggesting that using a Linn turntable rather than a Technics one makes any difference at all to the "dynamics, imaging and tone"? The cartridge, and to a lesser extent the arm will make an audible difference, but not the turntable. Any turntable that goes round at the right speed, with minimal speed variation (wow) and rumble, will sound the same as any other. Not my experience. I did own a turntable between the Technics and the Linn an Ariston. Yes, I know, washing machines. Anyway, I changed from the the technics to this high mass belt drive purely for dynamics and for some time the arm and cartridge were the same as on the technics. So yes, I am suggesting that. I would say if you think turntables sound the same, you've not listened to many. What more can I say that's how it is for me. I would be fascinated to know if you could tell when a turntable had been changed in a blind listening test. I suspect not. David. |
Technics direct drive turntables
In article , Bob Latham
wrote: To cut a long story short I eventually got a Linn LP12, Ittok and Asak. Now you can say what you like but the dynamics, imaging and tone of that thing was/is glorious to my ears. I still have it and still hugely prefer it to anything I've heard since. That's not to say that it's not coloration that I like, it may well be but I love it. OK, thanks for the kind permission, I'll say what I like. :-) For me the most annoying defect of the LP12/Ittok/Asak was the obvious mistracking distortion of the Asak. Made things like massed strings during climaxes at the end-of-side on classical music LPs sound like sandpaper over rough wood. The same mistracking and high HF distortion probably also gave things like guitar and other 'impulsive' instruments more 'attack'. Maybe that's why people who mainly listened to rock/pop liked it. Add in the LF resonances and the way the belt-drive speed wobbled when the sound changed level, you can end up with a mechanical version of 'smiley eq' to make the sound more attractive to some. To me the result was more a 'music box' than a way of listening to what was on the LP. But I realise that some people pay large sums for music boxes... ;- I also disliked the various clumsy 'features' of the LP12. Like the way the lid bumpers tended to keep falling off, or the mat stuck to the LP and came away with it when you took off the LP. And the declared 'need' to keep messing about with the deck to keep it 'on song' as the acolytes might have put it. Maybe they improved later, but the early Linn systems I had to use all seemed to me to be made out of orange boxes, rubber bands, etc. Not exactly construction I'd have expected for the price. For me it made the Technics combo sound lifeless, flat and uninvolving. I found the Technics and a V15/IIIHE simply lets me enjoy the music on the LP and not keep hearing obvious added distortions/colourations from things like the Asak. And meant I didn't have to waste any more worry/time/cash on all the 'upgrades' Linn have peddled to LP12 worshippers who kept being told this would get them to perfection.... until there was another 'upgrade' to buy. :-) I expect your milage to vary. It has. Thanks for giving me permission to say so. Can't say that I've ever since wished I'd used a Linn TT/arm/cart. But I'm quite happy if others enjoy them. :-) So in my case, cutting a long story short: Experience of the LP12 / Ittok / Asak was the reason I was so happy *not* to choose that combination. Oh, and I also have disliked the way the old 'flat earth' Linn/Naim axis of dealers + writers made it harder for many other UK companies with arguably better products to setup and succeed. Slainte, Jim -- Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me. Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html |
Technics direct drive turntables
"David Looser" wrote in
message Are you seriously suggesting that using a Linn turntable rather than a Technics one makes any difference at all to the "dynamics, imaging and tone"? The cartridge, and to a lesser extent the arm will make an audible difference, but not the turntable. Any turntable that goes round at the right speed, with minimal speed variation (wow) and rumble, will sound the same as any other. Really bad turntables can cause really bad sound, but like everything else, all good turntables sound the same. It is well known among people who have studied Linn turntables with a good engineering background in relevant areas that there was nothing that was unique or exemplary about the Linn products other than the marketing and hype. |
Technics direct drive turntables
"David Looser" wrote in
message If Technics stuff is hard to come by second hand now, I suggest it's because it was junked when it was replaced by something newer. Technics was never a prestige brand, so it never had the second-hand value of, say, Quad or Leak. IME Matsu****a products tend to be well-engineered and well made, and this makes their origional purchasers tend to want to hold onto them. |
Technics direct drive turntables
In article , Bob Latham
wrote: In article , Jim Lesurf wrote: In article , Bob Latham wrote: To cut a long story short I eventually got a Linn LP12, Ittok and Asak. Now you can say what you like but the dynamics, imaging and tone of that thing was/is glorious to my ears. I still have it and still hugely prefer it to anything I've heard since. That's not to say that it's not coloration that I like, it may well be but I love it. OK, thanks for the kind permission, I'll say what I like. :-) Funny. Sorry for my schoolboy sense-of-humour, but it was the fact that you'd said "you can say what you like" that tipped me over into deciding to have some fun with a reply. :-) For me the most annoying defect of the LP12/Ittok/Asak was the obvious mistracking distortion of the Asak. Made things like massed strings during climaxes at the end-of-side on classical music LPs sound like sandpaper over rough wood. I've never noticed any mistaking except on test discs which I was happy to sacrifice for the sound. But IIRC you have tended not to listen to kinds of classical music where I found this annoying. OTOH listening to something like "Mango Crazy" it wasn't a problem. 8-] Another guy purchased a Linn (after playing his discs on mine) purely for the much lower surface noise which baffled him (and me) but was very noticeable. A combination of factors like large diameter spherical stylus, low compliance and high mass can reduce surface noise. Plus things like a change in signal level or source impedance, depending on the amp, etc. The same mistracking and high HF distortion probably also gave things like guitar and other 'impulsive' instruments more 'attack'. Maybe that's why people who mainly listened to rock/pop liked it. Possible but it does seem to have better attack it may be a distortion, don't care, love it. Fine with me. I'm sure others did/do as well. But I've noticed over the years that they tended *not* to be people who played classical LPs and listened to radio 3 and went to classical concerts a lot. and the way the belt-drive speed wobbled when the sound changed level, No, not seen/heard that. The turntable is very high mass I would have thought it was most unlikely to change speed obviously as it has so much inertia. In fact, that was the claimed reason for the apparently better dynamics. Yes. Ivor would say anything. :-) However the 'high mass' simply means that the rate of change in speed is lower for a given change in stylus drag. In effect you have a big mass on an elastic band (the belt). Classic simple harmonic oscillator. you can end up with a mechanical version of 'smiley eq' ? to make the sound more attractive to some. To many, many, many people (all morons of course) I would say. Almost everyone I knew who was interested in audio got one around 1980 ish. Can't recall saying any of them were "morons". That may be your opinion, not mine. :-) TBH most of the people I knew in audio *didn't* use an LP12. But I am talking about people involved in manufacture at various companies, not writers or what KK calls rather oddly 'civilians' - i.e. the people who pay the wages when they buy things. I also disliked the various clumsy 'features' of the LP12. Like the way the lid bumpers tended to keep falling off, A tiny square of double sided sticky tape. or the mat stuck to the LP and came away with it when you took off the LP. Anti static gun. Yes. Curious that Linn couldn't arrange for neither to be needed at the time. Odd advert for superior engineering, I thought. But I also wonder if such things make nice 'mystic passes' for the 'believers' to learn and use as part of being 'involved' with the items they have bought rather than the music. :-) And the declared 'need' to keep messing about with the deck to keep it 'on song' as the acolytes might have put it. It did sag a little (over years) and needed a corresponding tightening of the spring bolts making sure the TT remained level and the P clip was still free. A half hour job every 3 years or so. I did oil my Technics deck once. Apart from that it has just worked OK since I got it. I did go though checking it when I did the 'V15/III versus newcomers' for HFN a year or two ago and made a load of cartridge measurements, Seemed fine. Maybe they improved later, but the early Linn systems I had to use all seemed to me to be made out of orange boxes, rubber bands, etc. Not exactly construction I'd have expected for the price. That I cannot agree with at all. Mine is beautifully made. They may well have got better in that way. For me it made the Technics combo sound lifeless, flat and uninvolving. I found the Technics and a V15/IIIHE simply lets me enjoy the music on the LP and not keep hearing obvious added distortions/colourations from things like the Asak. After I heard my first moving coil cartridge I couldn't listen to shure any more. Too dull and too bright at the same time. Seduced by distortion no doubt but I still enjoyed it more. No idea if the difference is distortion. The main factors I've noticed is that the early MCs tended to have poor tracking compared with the V15 and applied more force to the LP. They would also inject more vibration into the arm due to the low compliance, etc. And of course with any cart you may need to take care with the frequency response. The Shures are quite fussy about the loading impedance used. I had an Entre, Ortofon MC?? and an Asak. The Ortofon had a fabulous image beyond anything I've ever heard. FWIW of the modern carts I tried I liked the Ortofom M2 Black best. Gave good results. But had a stylus tip with far more mass than the V15 made decades earlier. Alas, no-one seems to think of tip mass or compliance these days. Slainte, Jim -- Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me. Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html |
Technics direct drive turntables
Arny Krueger wrote:
"David wrote in message If Technics stuff is hard to come by second hand now, I suggest it's because it was junked when it was replaced by something newer. Technics was never a prestige brand, so it never had the second-hand value of, say, Quad or Leak. IME Matsu****a products tend to be well-engineered and well made, and this makes their origional purchasers tend to want to hold onto them. My SL120 still does the job as well as ever. -- David Kennedy http://www.anindianinexile.com |
Technics direct drive turntables
To many, many, many people (all morons of course) I would say. Almost everyone I knew who was interested in audio got one around 1980 ish. I messed around with various decks in the 70's/80's and would confirm that there was a different sound, although perhaps as much due to arm/cartridge as the deck. But due to the ridiculous Linn/Naim worship in the hi-fi mags and the "Jehovas Witnesses" approach of their dealers - "if you can't hear the vast improvement then you just don't understand" - I swore that I would never, ever buy anything from Linn. Funnily enough one of the reasons I finally settled on a Michell Gyrodeck, apart from the aesthetics which you either like or you don't, was what was intended to be a negative review in one of the comics which tested a variety of "top-end" decks, arms and cartridges. They didn't like the Gyro, because the arms/cartridges sounded different when mated to the Gyro. Hang on, thought I, isn't that the whole point? You should be able to mess around to your heart's content with arms and cartridge, with the deck itself contributing absolutely nothing to the sound? I suppose I have an inherent preference for items designed by experienced engineers rather than marketing whizzkids. I've still got the Gyro, by the way, coupled with an SME5 and Transfiguration, which I reckon will see my ears out. Geoff |
Technics direct drive turntables
"Bob Latham" wrote in message ... snip Phew is this thread still going? If you are 100% certain you didn't buy into reviewers of the time looking after old pals, and the mythology, and you have exhausted options and comparisons, then if you feel the LP12 works for you thats what counts. But I'm no fan of it, and it's not original nor groundbreaking. It's based on established isolation principles found in many T/T's from the 60's and 70's, my opinion (and many others) is it's an expensive variation of cheaper longstanding models such as: http://www.theanalogdept.com/td125_dept.htm http://www.retrohifi.co.uk/thorens_150.html#t http://www.retrohifi.co.uk/pioneer_pl12d.html And many many others. And during late 80's into the 90's there was a "clone" which seriously "rivalled" (bettered?) the LP12, being also a 3-point suspended belt drive with changeable armboards, and upgradeable via an external PSU etc. Made in UK so same costs, (distribution and retailer mark-up being always the main costs) but this was 40-50% cheaper! http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/image...1528&is_user=0 But I stress once again, if you can discern whatever ability it may possess then thats what is important, but I stand my ground. It's the cart, and an arm that can track correctly and alignment, with low resistance tube cabling into a true RIAA phone stage with correct loading that dictates the sound. And the Technics can allow all that to function without disruption. As an icon in the modern gadget/technical world and it's exemplary engineering and style status, the Science museum here in London have a pair of SL-1200's on display, this is the actual image of the Technics examples on display at the Science museum: http://www.scienceandsociety.co.uk/r...g=2&imagepos=2 |
Technics direct drive turntables
Fed Up Lurker wrote:
If you are 100% certain you didn't buy into reviewers of the time looking after old pals, and the mythology, and you have exhausted options and comparisons, then if you feel the LP12 works for you thats what counts. But I'm no fan of it, and it's not original nor groundbreaking. It's based on established isolation principles found in many T/T's from the 60's and 70's, my opinion (and many others) is it's an expensive variation of cheaper longstanding models such as: http://www.theanalogdept.com/td125_dept.htm I always liked those. http://www.retrohifi.co.uk/thorens_150.html#t http://www.retrohifi.co.uk/pioneer_pl12d.html And many many others. Including http://www.garrard501.com/rebuild.html And during late 80's into the 90's there was a "clone" which seriously "rivalled" (bettered?) the LP12, being also a 3-point suspended belt drive with changeable armboards, and upgradeable via an external PSU etc. Made in UK so same costs, (distribution and retailer mark-up being always the main costs) but this was 40-50% cheaper! http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/image...1528&is_user=0 As an icon in the modern gadget/technical world and it's exemplary engineering and style status, the Science museum here in London have a pair of SL-1200's on display, this is the actual image of the Technics examples on display at the Science museum: http://www.scienceandsociety.co.uk/r...g=2&imagepos=2 I have a SL120 with SME arm going into a 303/33 Quad powering a pair of Leak 2075's and, whereas I've heard lots of other nice systems [well some anyway] it does the job for me. Never had any trouble with the SL120 since I bought it -- David Kennedy http://www.anindianinexile.com |
Technics direct drive turntables
"David Kennedy" wrote in message ... Fed Up Lurker wrote: If you are 100% certain you didn't buy into reviewers of the time looking after old pals, and the mythology, and you have exhausted options and comparisons, then if you feel the LP12 works for you thats what counts. But I'm no fan of it, and it's not original nor groundbreaking. It's based on established isolation principles found in many T/T's from the 60's and 70's, my opinion (and many others) is it's an expensive variation of cheaper longstanding models such as: http://www.theanalogdept.com/td125_dept.htm I always liked those. http://www.retrohifi.co.uk/thorens_150.html#t http://www.retrohifi.co.uk/pioneer_pl12d.html And many many others. Including http://www.garrard501.com/rebuild.html That was an idler wheel mechanism, a half way house between direct drive and belt drive - The benefits of belt drive type isolation, but idler wheels/gears instead of a clumsy losey belt. And with pitch intergrity akin to direct drives. And during late 80's into the 90's there was a "clone" which seriously "rivalled" (bettered?) the LP12, being also a 3-point suspended belt drive with changeable armboards, and upgradeable via an external PSU etc. Made in UK so same costs, (distribution and retailer mark-up being always the main costs) but this was 40-50% cheaper! http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/image...1528&is_user=0 As an icon in the modern gadget/technical world and it's exemplary engineering and style status, the Science museum here in London have a pair of SL-1200's on display, this is the actual image of the Technics examples on display at the Science museum: http://www.scienceandsociety.co.uk/r...g=2&imagepos=2 I have a SL120 with SME arm And it's a goodlooker too! http://www.vintagetechnics.info/turntables/sl120.htm But, asthetics of some versions of the LP12, well.... http://www.toffsandtinks.com/shop/im...005217_485.jpg A replacement hood for an LP12 is a staggering £150. going into a 303/33 Quad powering a pair of Leak 2075's and, whereas I've heard lots of other nice systems [well some anyway] it does the job for me. Never had any trouble with the SL120 since I bought it -- David Kennedy http://www.anindianinexile.com |
Technics direct drive turntables
David Kennedy said...
I have a SL120 with SME arm going into a 303/33 Quad powering a pair of Leak 2075's and, whereas I've heard lots of other nice systems [well some anyway] it does the job for me. How do you find the 2075's?. I was going to get a pair in 1976 but went for the 2060's instead, using them with a Pioneer SA 9500 http://www.classicaudio.com/forsale/pio/SA9500.html I thought the treble a bit tizzy, the bass deep but slow and they had a marvellous midrange. The were also the most shoddily constructed and assembled piece of kit I have ever had. One tweeter mounting plate had been miss pressed and had a large bite out of one corner, the welding on the aluminium grill surrounds looked like beginners practice pieces and the grills (which were made from some hideous woven soundproof plastic fibre) detached themselves from the pressed cardboard former within a fortnight, this mattered little as the pegs which held the former to the cabinet broke soon after and the grills and alu surrounds were ditched forever. About a year after I got them one of the midrange drivers started screeching badly, rubbing voice coil I think. Being up in Yorkshire at the time; I took the offending unit to Idle (where Rank/Leak/Whatever they were named at the time were based). The receptionist took me through the production area (which was like a scene from Dickens, really untidy; hand presses and saws, workers with fag hanging from gobs and cups of tea in hand) to a well equipped lab area helpful chap attached the offending driver to a signal generator whereupon it duly screeched. This provoked a cry from the another bench of... "Not another one buggered! Were any of those bloody things made properly?" They gave me a replacement driver and also a spare one. Saying "You'll need it, the other will go soon". Of course it never did and and they are still going strong in the care of a friend. Who dutifully follows my instructions and rotates the bass drivers yearly when they sag too much on the oiled cloth surrounds. -- Ken O'Meara http://www.btinternet.com/~unsteadyken/ |
Technics direct drive turntables
Fed Up Lurker wrote:
"David wrote in message ... Fed Up Lurker wrote: If you are 100% certain you didn't buy into reviewers of the time looking after old pals, and the mythology, and you have exhausted options and comparisons, then if you feel the LP12 works for you thats what counts. But I'm no fan of it, and it's not original nor groundbreaking. It's based on established isolation principles found in many T/T's from the 60's and 70's, my opinion (and many others) is it's an expensive variation of cheaper longstanding models such as: http://www.theanalogdept.com/td125_dept.htm I always liked those. http://www.retrohifi.co.uk/thorens_150.html#t http://www.retrohifi.co.uk/pioneer_pl12d.html And many many others. Including http://www.garrard501.com/rebuild.html That was an idler wheel mechanism, a half way house between direct drive and belt drive - The benefits of belt drive type isolation, but idler wheels/gears instead of a clumsy losey belt. And with pitch intergrity akin to direct drives. And during late 80's into the 90's there was a "clone" which seriously "rivalled" (bettered?) the LP12, being also a 3-point suspended belt drive with changeable armboards, and upgradeable via an external PSU etc. Made in UK so same costs, (distribution and retailer mark-up being always the main costs) but this was 40-50% cheaper! http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/image...1528&is_user=0 As an icon in the modern gadget/technical world and it's exemplary engineering and style status, the Science museum here in London have a pair of SL-1200's on display, this is the actual image of the Technics examples on display at the Science museum: http://www.scienceandsociety.co.uk/r...g=2&imagepos=2 I have a SL120 with SME arm And it's a goodlooker too! http://www.vintagetechnics.info/turntables/sl120.htm That's the one. But, asthetics of some versions of the LP12, well.... http://www.toffsandtinks.com/shop/im...005217_485.jpg A replacement hood for an LP12 is a staggering £150. No thanks. going into a 303/33 Quad powering a pair of Leak 2075's and, whereas I've heard lots of other nice systems [well some anyway] it does the job for me. Never had any trouble with the SL120 since I bought it -- David Kennedy http://www.anindianinexile.com -- David Kennedy http://www.anindianinexile.com |
Technics direct drive turntables
UnsteadyKen wrote:
David Kennedy said... I have a SL120 with SME arm going into a 303/33 Quad powering a pair of Leak 2075's and, whereas I've heard lots of other nice systems [well some anyway] it does the job for me. How do you find the 2075's?. I was going to get a pair in 1976 but went for the 2060's instead, using them with a Pioneer SA 9500 http://www.classicaudio.com/forsale/pio/SA9500.html I like the 2075's although I would prefer to return to the tanoys [BBC monitors] that I had for a few years. I did try the bass cabinets on their own and fitted with a monitor gold and that also worked well but for general use the 2075's do a nice job. I managed to get hold of a pair of 15" Monitor gold speakers last year so I just need to sort an enclosure now. Never heard the 2060's -- David Kennedy http://www.anindianinexile.com |
| All times are GMT. The time now is 07:38 AM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.0.0
Copyright ©2004-2006 AudioBanter.co.uk