"Michael A. Terrell" wrote

From what I've
seen of European connectors, I wouldn't use one anywhere. We had to use
them in the Earth Stations we built for the European Space Agency. We
had them ship us what they wanted used, then had to fight with it to
find enough usable hardware. The outlets we used on US turnkey were
steel Wiremold outlet strips. They sent us pairs of sockets that had to
be wired and mounted inside the racks. It looked like the crap imported
from China for flea markets. No inspect for US use, and the connectors
are incompatible with the US market. Some had a tiny expanded scale 250
voltmeter that displayed 200 to 250 volts. They wondered why only
foreign tourist were buying the crap.


This all seems as pointless as Dave's slagging-off of US sockets. But some
of what you've written makes little sense. Why should items intended for ESA
earth stations need to be inspected for US use? And of course they are
incompatible with the US market, they are meant to be compatible with a
European standard, wasn't that why the ESA specified them? I'm also confused
by your reference to "foreign tourists", since when have tourists bought
earth stations? And finally since when have socket outlets included
voltmeters?

David.

"Terry Casey" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...

"Terry Casey" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...

Dave Liquorice wrote:


(*) As in bread, not sure what a "toaster oven" is.


A small, counter top electric oven that runs on a 20A 120V circuit.
They are quite common to cook small meals, or for additional capacity
for a large meal where you need multiple temperatures.

Sounds similar to what we call a 'Baby Belling':

http://www.belling.co.uk/baby-belling


A toaster oven has no hot plates. It is just an oven and has no stove
elements.

That is because you use them as an add-on facility whilst the Baby
Belling is designed as a lone unit, primarily for student bed sits,
small flats, etc., that don't have room for a full size cooker. I have
seen them in the staff refreshment area of small businesses, although it
would be more common to find a microwave these days.

I look at it functionally - it is quite possible to eat reasonably well with
prepared foods that require only heating in an oven. It is not clear
whether it is better for the oven to use conventional heating elements or
microwaves. A toaster oven plus a hot water pot can be far less costly
although the gap is narrowing. If you are into fried foods, reheating them
in a toaster oven can yield pretty tasty results while the microwave will
produce a soggy mess.

"J G Miller" wrote in message
...
On Saturday, February 4th, 2012, at 15:32:05h -0500, Arny Krueger wrote:

Most of that happened down south and is called the TVA (Tennessee Valley
Authority). The TVA turned out to be a very strategic resource - it
provided massive amounts of power to the Oak Ridge uranium refining
facility.

The Hoover Dam in Nevada and the Grand Coulee dam in Washington state
were also built at about the same time. The Grand Coulee Dam provided
massive amounts of electric power to the Hanford plutonium refining
facility.

If the Tea Party had been running the country back then,
these "socialist" projects would never have happened.

Seems like. Could have been a disaster.

And Ron Paul supporters are all for closing down the TVA.

http://www.dailypaul.COM/127677/abolish-these-federal-departments-agencies-programs-grants-bureaus-commissions-administrations-offices-foundations-etc

One wonders if these people ever think about the consequences of what
they are demanding ...

Privatizing the TVA need not be so disruptive.

In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes:
[]
I use Lidl for some things. Not fresh vegetables, though. Or meat. Dairy
products are good value as are most other non fresh things.
Their tools in general are excellent - far better than budget stuff
elsewhere. But are only ever on special offer so you need to look out for
them. Don't have an Aldi anywhere close.

They'll email you in advance with the details of what they're going to
have in - twice a week - if you sign up for their newsletter. Usually
shows what they'll have in in two or three days - and usually they won't
sell the items, even if they have them in stock, before the stated date.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

You can think I'm wrong, but that's no reason to stop thinking. - Dr. Gregory
House (TV character), quoted in Radio Times 1-7/3/2008

Terry Casey wrote:

In article ,
says...

Terry Casey wrote:

In article ,
says...

Dave Liquorice wrote:


(*) As in bread, not sure what a "toaster oven" is.


A small, counter top electric oven that runs on a 20A 120V circuit.
They are quite common to cook small meals, or for additional capacity
for a large meal where you need multiple temperatures.

Sounds similar to what we call a 'Baby Belling':

http://www.belling.co.uk/baby-belling


Somewhat, but this is a typical example, with a warming tray on top.
The tray uses the waste heat from the oven.

http://homeappliances.files.wordpress.com/2006/12/convection-toaster-oven.jpg


If you took away the hot plates on the Belling you would end up with
something similar. In the UK, though, though tend to used as the only
means of cooking when space is very limited - thus the hot plate
facilities are required.


There are small combo units sold for offices that are a small
refrigerator and cooktop. Sometimes called a 'Kitchenette'.

http://www.ajmadison.com/b.php/Compact+Kitchens/N~36 shows some
examples.



--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.

Arny Krueger wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
news

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:

In article ,
Michael A. Terrell wrote:
Jesus, those terminals are a fire waiting to happen. They don't grip
wires - all that happens when you tighten them is that the wire gets
spewed out the sides. If you are lucky a tiny bit of it may still be
under the screw head.

Sigh. Such arrogant ignorance. You've never seen one, or used on,
but all you can do is find fault with them.

Oh, but *I* have. Did some work on an American Optical installation that
used these some time ago - and just assumed the design had been changed
for something better by now.


Why change it? They have a damn good safety record, and there are over
a billion in use. Just because someone outside the US dislikes them is
no reason to change.

They are used in the following countries:

American Samoa, Anguilla, Antigua, Aruba, Bahamas, Bangladesh, Barbados,
Bermuda, Bolivia, Brazil, Cambodia, Canada, Cayman Islands, China (without
holes in blades and slightly shorter blades), Colombia, Costa Rica, Cuba,
Ecuador, El Salvador, Guam, Guatemala, Guyana, Haiti, Honduras, Jamaica,
Japan, Laos, Lebanon, Liberia, Maldives, Mexico, Micronesia, Montserrat,
Netherlands Antilles, Nicaragua, Niger, Okinawa, Panama, Peru, Philippines,
Puerto Rico, St. Vincent, Saudi Arabia, Tahiti, Taiwan, Thailand, United
States, Venezuela, Vietnam, Virgin Islands (U.S.& British), Yemen.

The UK style outlet is used in the following countries:

Bahrain, Bangladesh, Belize, Botswana, Brunei, Cameroon, Channel Islands,
China, Cyprus, Dominica, El Salvador, Gambia, Ghana, Gibraltar, Grenada,
Guatemala, Guyana, Hong Kong, Iraq, Ireland, Isle of Man, Jordan, Kenya,
Kuwait, Lebanon, Macau, Malawi, Malaysia, Maldives, Malta, Mauritius,
Myanmar, Nigeria, Oman, Qatar, St. Kitts-Nevis, St. Lucia, St. Vincent,
Saudi Arabia, Seychelles, Sierra Leone, Singapore, Tanzania, Uganda, United
Arab Emirates, United Kingdom, Vietnam, Yemen, Zambia, Zimbabwe

The UK outlet is actually slightly less well-accepted than the US outlet.
;-)


What is the total number of installed outlets, rather than the total
number of countries?


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.

David Looser wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote

From what I've
seen of European connectors, I wouldn't use one anywhere. We had to use
them in the Earth Stations we built for the European Space Agency. We
had them ship us what they wanted used, then had to fight with it to
find enough usable hardware. The outlets we used on US turnkey were
steel Wiremold outlet strips. They sent us pairs of sockets that had to
be wired and mounted inside the racks. It looked like the crap imported
from China for flea markets. No inspect for US use, and the connectors
are incompatible with the US market. Some had a tiny expanded scale 250
voltmeter that displayed 200 to 250 volts. They wondered why only
foreign tourist were buying the crap.


This all seems as pointless as Dave's slagging-off of US sockets. But some
of what you've written makes little sense. Why should items intended for ESA
earth stations need to be inspected for US use?


Where did I say that they were? All the hardware met US standards
before it was installed in racks for shipment. One system was installed
into a European miltary style trailer, and had to have the wiring
complete and ready to plug into the mobile generator that was to be
hauled behind the communications system. Both were to be hauled by a
classic Duce& a half, or similar sized vehicle when a launch was
scheduled. The other system was pre cabled so their techs uncrated the
full racks on site, plugged the labed harneses to the racks, and had
their electricain connect it to the facility's power system. that's the
entire concept of a 'Turnkey Installation' A couple hours after it was
delivered, it was fully operational, instead of them spend six months or
more wireing and testing, then calibrating the system.


And of course they are incompatible with the US market, they are meant
meant to be compatible with a European standard, wasn't that why the
ESA specified them?


Isn't that obvious? They wanted what they are used to using.
Wouldn't you? Just like the Ku band system we built for the ISS. Based
on a Microdyne 700 series Telemetry system, but shipped with 48 VDC
power supplies instead of the standard 120/240 volt AC supplies. A
stanard AC plug for any country would be useless.


I'm also confused by your reference to "foreign tourists", since when have
tourists bought earth stations?


When have you ever seen brand new, custom built US $8,000,000 earth
stations for sale at a flea market? You are in such a hurry to find
fault that you don't bother to consider the meanuing of the text.
'Foreign tourists' here on vacation were buying them in Florida and
taking them to Europe becasue they were a lot cheaper than similar items
in the UK.


And finally since when have socket outlets included voltmeters?


Since China sold them. I could probably go to a flea market annd
take a picture of one, if you need convinced that they exist. Even
then, you would probably claim they were fakes.

--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
m...

David Looser wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote

Why should items intended for ESA
earth stations need to be inspected for US use?


Where did I say that they were?

Why mention that they weren't inspected for US use if they didn't need to
be?

And of course they are incompatible with the US market, they are meant
meant to be compatible with a European standard, wasn't that why the
ESA specified them?


Isn't that obvious? They wanted what they are used to using.

Well I thought it was obvious, why I why I queried the fact that you
apparently thought otherwise

I'm also confused by your reference to "foreign tourists", since when
have
tourists bought earth stations?


When have you ever seen brand new, custom built US $8,000,000 earth
stations for sale at a flea market? You are in such a hurry to find
fault that you don't bother to consider the meaning of the text.

I wasn't in a "hurry" to find fault at all. I actually spent some time
reading your post trying to decipher the meaning. But since what you wrote
was so vague and confused I asked for clarification of what you actually
meant.

'Foreign tourists' here on vacation were buying them in Florida and
taking them to Europe because they were a lot cheaper than similar items
in the UK.

You are still being vague. What foreign tourists, and what were they buying?

And finally since when have socket outlets included voltmeters?


Since China sold them.

Well OK, I've never seen one. I doubt that they conform to UK standards.

I could probably go to a flea market and
take a picture of one, if you need convinced that they exist. Even
then, you would probably claim they were fakes.

You appear to think that I am deliberately finding fault with your post. I'm
not, I'm simply asking for clarification of the meaning of your vague and
confused post.

David.

In article ,
Michael A. Terrell wrote:
Oh, but *I* have. Did some work on an American Optical installation that
used these some time ago - and just assumed the design had been changed
for something better by now.


Why change it? They have a damn good safety record, and there are over
a billion in use. Just because someone outside the US dislikes them is
no reason to change. There are multiple grades, from what I linked, to
medical grade with extreme low leakage. There are commercial grade,
intended for heavy usage. Think about it. Most plugs are rarely
inserted or removed, and the standard duty is fine.

The fact there are multiple grades says much. Better to use an entirely
different connector for arduous duty. Then there is no danger of mixing
them up.

Some items are only
plugged in one time, and used till the item is worn out. From what I've
seen of European connectors, I wouldn't use one anywhere. We had to use
them in the Earth Stations we built for the European Space Agency. We
had them ship us what they wanted used, then had to fight with it to
find enough usable hardware. The outlets we used on US turnkey were
steel Wiremold outlet strips. They sent us pairs of sockets that had to
be wired and mounted inside the racks. It looked like the crap imported
from China for flea markets. No inspect for US use, and the connectors
are incompatible with the US market. Some had a tiny expanded scale 250
voltmeter that displayed 200 to 250 volts. They wondered why only
foreign tourist were buying the crap.

I'd say exactly the same of that fitting you pictured. It looks like it
would be impossible to make something cheaper or nastier.

--
*Why is it that to stop Windows 95, you have to click on "Start"?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Arny Krueger wrote:
The UK outlet is actually slightly less well-accepted than the US
outlet.

You could say the same about analogue TV. Doesn't make 525/60 NTSC better
than 625/50 PAL, though. ;-)

--
*The fact that no one understands you doesn't mean you're an artist

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.