"Iain Churches" wrote

It's actually very simple. Lines 1-24 are say for your rhythm
section mics. The box is fitted in the dry carpetted end of the studio,
with 1-12 on the wall of the drum booth. 25-48 are for other
instruments, still on the carpet. 49-60 are in the live end for
strings etc. You can still run neat cableforms even from one
end to the other if you wish, and even bind with with colour
Velchro for ID. Normal everyday practice.


You are talking about music recording studios, Dave is talking about TV
studios. So why are you both insisting that your experience must apply to
the other? Talk about a pointless exchange!

David.

"David Looser" wrote in message
...
"Iain Churches" wrote

It's actually very simple. Lines 1-24 are say for your rhythm
section mics. The box is fitted in the dry carpetted end of the studio,
with 1-12 on the wall of the drum booth. 25-48 are for other
instruments, still on the carpet. 49-60 are in the live end for
strings etc. You can still run neat cableforms even from one
end to the other if you wish, and even bind with with colour
Velchro for ID. Normal everyday practice.


You are talking about music recording studios, Dave is talking about TV
studios. So why are you both insisting that your experience must apply to
the other? Talk about a pointless exchange!

The same basic principles of XLR input boxes apply.

"Iain Churches" wrote

But good practice ensures that you don't call up the smoke
genie when you come up against a box that does have TRS
phantom.


I've forgotten which gauge of plug you attach the term "TRS" to, but if you
use B gauge you won't get "the smoke genie" anyway. They were designed to be
used to "hot plug" circuits carrying DC.

David.

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
...

"David Looser" wrote in message
...
"Iain Churches" wrote

It's actually very simple. Lines 1-24 are say for your rhythm
section mics. The box is fitted in the dry carpetted end of the studio,
with 1-12 on the wall of the drum booth. 25-48 are for other
instruments, still on the carpet. 49-60 are in the live end for
strings etc. You can still run neat cableforms even from one
end to the other if you wish, and even bind with with colour
Velchro for ID. Normal everyday practice.


You are talking about music recording studios, Dave is talking about TV
studios. So why are you both insisting that your experience must apply to
the other? Talk about a pointless exchange!

The same basic principles of XLR input boxes apply.


Well clearly it doesn't, so why pretend that it does?

David.

In article ,
Iain Churches wrote:
In every single BBC TV studio I've had experience of. Even those fitted
with assignable consoles where the need is lessened.

But that's the Beeb. What about the hundreds ad hundreds of other
studios in the EU?

ITV and independant TV facilities are the same in the UK.. And I'm willing
to bet it will be exactly the same in any large TV production studio
throughout the world - since the problems are exactly the same.

I am familiar with Neve, SSL and Studer patch bays. In each
case the top row of connectors is MicAmpOut. There is no
possibility to plug anything into the mic amp input except from
a wall box or at the back of the console. Good sense.

You are 'familiar' with the patch bays of those consoles you've looked at.
Neve, at one time at least, made custom units for any application. And
pretty well any maker would do a jackfield to your requirements. Very few
would just accept what was on offer. Neither SSL or Studer are known for
TV studio production consols in the UK, although I think LWT may have used
SSL at one time.

If you have each wall box mic input hard wired to a desk channel it
makes rigging things in the studio a nightmare - cables would be
running in all directions.

It's actually very simple. Lines 1-24 are say for your rhythm
section mics.

Yet another example of your blinkered view. TV studios are used for all
sorts of things as well as music progs. And, of course, could have an
orchestra in any part of the studio. The positioning of it can be
determined by the set design.

The box is fitted in the dry carpetted end of the studio,
with 1-12 on the wall of the drum booth. 25-48 are for other
instruments, still on the carpet. 49-60 are in the live end for
strings etc. You can still run neat cableforms even from one
end to the other if you wish, and even bind with with colour
Velchro for ID. Normal everyday practice.

'Neat' cable forms are of absolutely no benefit if a camera wishes to
track over them...

--
*Is there another word for synonym?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
David Looser wrote:
But good practice ensures that you don't call up the smoke
genie when you come up against a box that does have TRS
phantom.


I've forgotten which gauge of plug you attach the term "TRS" to, but if
you use B gauge you won't get "the smoke genie" anyway. They were
designed to be used to "hot plug" circuits carrying DC.

Of course. They are originally the plugs used in manual telephone
exchanges. Type 316. Differ from a domestic stereo jack by having a
smaller diameter and shaped tip.

Iain seems to think the two are the same - since he has referred to a
domestic one for his radio headset and studio jackfields as both TRS.
I normally refer to them as domestic and GPO, as do most in TV. The
younger lads soon learn. ;-)

--
*Why don't you ever see the headline "Psychic Wins Lottery"?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
David Looser wrote:
But good practice ensures that you don't call up the smoke
genie when you come up against a box that does have TRS
phantom.


I've forgotten which gauge of plug you attach the term "TRS" to, but if
you use B gauge you won't get "the smoke genie" anyway. They were
designed to be used to "hot plug" circuits carrying DC.

Of course. They are originally the plugs used in manual telephone
exchanges. Type 316. Differ from a domestic stereo jack by having a
smaller diameter and shaped tip.

Iain seems to think the two are the same - since he has referred to a
domestic one for his radio headset and studio jackfields as both TRS.
I normally refer to them as domestic and GPO, as do most in TV. The
younger lads soon learn. ;-)


It's precisely because the term "TRS" applies equally to both gauges (and
indeed to 3.5mm 'stereo' plugs for that matter) that I find the term so
imprecise as to encourage ambiguity. I still don't understand why the
recording and broadcast industries don't use the clear & unambiguous terms
"A gauge" and "B gauge".

Incidentally *both* designs were originally designed for, and used in,
manual telephone exchanges. The A gauge type is the older design, being
replaced by the B gauge when a change in signalling system meant that the
plug had to carry DC as well as speech. The redesign prevented the line
being briefly shorted out as the plug was inserted or withdrawn.

David.

Keith G wrote:

http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/showntell/MicPreAmp.jpg

I've always ignored it and used it 'Flat' but what does it
do? What's actually happening/being done to the signal
when it is turned through the various 'instruments'? (I'll
have to have a fiddle with it sometime!)

Assuming Arny's right and the two triodes are only used for
FX, then you have two inverting valve gain stages in series.
So if you set both triodes up for high even harmonic
distortion, you can get a lot of odd harmonics from the
pair. Basically, it allows you to stretch the signal in one
direction, turn it over, and stretch it the other way.
Perhaps your circuit varies the proportion of signal applied
to each valve stage, as well as varying the proportion
applied to the pair. That then gives you some control over
both the level and the type of distortion.

AFAIR there's a company called "Pax" that offers some kind
of "colour control" on its valve amps.

I wonder what it is about instruments that determines
whether they prefer one kind of distortion rather than
another? Maybe it depends on the harmonic signature of the
instrument. Even for flute, odd for sax, maybe.

Ian

In article ,
David Looser wrote:
Iain seems to think the two are the same - since he has referred to a
domestic one for his radio headset and studio jackfields as both TRS.
I normally refer to them as domestic and GPO, as do most in TV. The
younger lads soon learn. ;-)


It's precisely because the term "TRS" applies equally to both gauges
(and indeed to 3.5mm 'stereo' plugs for that matter) that I find the
term so imprecise as to encourage ambiguity. I still don't understand
why the recording and broadcast industries don't use the clear &
unambiguous terms "A gauge" and "B gauge".

Probably because A and B are used for so many other things. The TV
convention of calling them domestic and GPO worked just fine in the UK. A
different thing from using the official terms.

Incidentally *both* designs were originally designed for, and used in,
manual telephone exchanges. The A gauge type is the older design, being
replaced by the B gauge when a change in signalling system meant that
the plug had to carry DC as well as speech. The redesign prevented the
line being briefly shorted out as the plug was inserted or withdrawn.

Right. Although surely both types always had to carry DC? A basic old
telephone needs it to work, due to the carbon mic which doesn't generate a
signal without it.

--
*Ambition is a poor excuse for not having enough sense to be lazy *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Ian Iveson wrote:
I wonder what it is about instruments that determines
whether they prefer one kind of distortion rather than
another? Maybe it depends on the harmonic signature of the
instrument. Even for flute, odd for sax, maybe.

Think so. Hence some instruments sounding more 'exciting' on vinyl than
digital. Introducing distortion to an acoustic instrument via the
electronics in whatever way is called adding 'edge' by some.

--
*It's a thankless job, but I've got a lot of Karma to burn off

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.