In article ,
Keith G wrote:
Why do I get the impression that you are just giving Pucci endless
opportunities to wank on about his boring little bottom-feeder *job*
back gawd knows when, Iain?

Should have realised you don't want to discuss audio in any form except
'toobs' etc , Kitty. So just what are you doing here?

--
*I never drink anything stronger than gin before breakfast *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Iain Churches" wrote

In music studios it is known as balanced jack.
Musicians refer to it as stereo jack. Neither
is incorrect, the plug may be used in either role.

So when you talk to musicians you use different terms? *Really* convenient!

Balanced jack to XLR is by far the most common combination
for a cable with a jack plug at one end.

Is it? Have you conducted a survey of every cable with a jack plug on one
end in every recording studio, broadcast (radio and TV)studio, and technical
facility in the country to establish that? A pound to a penny you are wrong.


Hardly a small circle:-)

*Very* small by comparison with those who work in broadcasting and
telecommunications.

I cannot recall any
confusion.

Because you don't get out much!

David.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Iain Churches wrote:
You are 'familiar' with the patch bays of those consoles you've looked
at.
Neve, at one time at least, made custom units for any application

Dave, these are consoles I have used, on a great number of occasions
over many years not "looked at" !

Makes me wonder. Very few TV studios have a 'standard' jackfield. Which
means local knowledge is very important.

I don't know how your TV patches are laid out, but you
should be able to find your way round any music studio jackfield.
The rows are paired, with outputs always being the top row of
the pair. So mic preamp out, and studio lines are all along the
top row, and continue in the third row. Good patches always
have a engraved ID strips. It's pretty simple.

Not that long ago I dubbed a series at an independent facility. They had a
console which was ex Abbey Road, and sort of adapted for their use. With a
total nightmare of a jackfield.

How can it be difficult? Was the teminology strange?
The people at AR had probably used it for years without
having to think twice. But then there are some pretty smart
people the-)


. And
pretty well any maker would do a jackfield to your requirements. Very
few would just accept what was on offer. Neither SSL or Studer are
known for TV studio production consols in the UK, although I think LWT
may have used SSL at one time.

Both are excellent.

They might be excellent for their intended application. Which is rarely TV
specific.

Studer won a contract last autumn with the BBC for 85
(yes, eighty five!!) consoles. Didn't you know?

The last time I visited the Television Centre, BBC TV
had at least two Studer Vista 8 consoles, one of which
is the largest Vista 8 ever installed. Didn't you know?


Iain

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
David Looser wrote:
The refusal of the broadcast and recording industries to use agreed,
unambiguous terms for the various types of 1/4" jack is one of the
mysteries of modern life. Whilst the terms Dave uses are vague, yours
are worse.

The BBC were famous for inventing their own terms for things. ;-) And of
course being the major single organisation using them, that use often
percolated to others in broadcasting. But not always. In the staff days
there would be jargon confined to just the one company. Can make for
problems now most are freelance and move around. ;-)


Nothing wrong with own terms. Decca had a mastering suite known
to all as the Green Room. It was painted eggshell blue, and had been
that colour since 1938 when it was decided that EMI green was not
a suitable colour.

I am sure that would have upset David no end:-)

In article ,
Iain Churches wrote:
Makes me wonder. Very few TV studios have a 'standard' jackfield. Which
means local knowledge is very important.

I don't know how your TV patches are laid out, but you
should be able to find your way round any music studio jackfield.
The rows are paired, with outputs always being the top row of
the pair. So mic preamp out, and studio lines are all along the
top row, and continue in the third row. Good patches always
have a engraved ID strips. It's pretty simple.

Yes - recording studios have *very* simple jackfields compared to a large
GP TV studio.

--
*Sleep with a photographer and watch things develop

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in
message

Yes - recording studios have *very* simple jackfields
compared to a large GP TV studio.

If a TV studio has a digital console, doesn't the jackfield become either
static or just plain not used?

I'm thinking that it is pretty much a fixture as long as all the mic jacks
in the studio are wired into it. I find digital patching so convenient, it
seems like the jack panel wiring becomes something you set and forget.

In article ,
Arny Krueger wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in
message

Yes - recording studios have *very* simple jackfields
compared to a large GP TV studio.

If a TV studio has a digital console, doesn't the jackfield become
either static or just plain not used?

No. The mics are still analogue with the A to D being done within the
console - or apparatus area. In the last one I visited. That's not to say
it won't ever change - and rightly so since mic jackfields do give
problems when they wear. But are a necessity in a large TV studio which
will have many times the number of mic sockets than channel inputs - to
make rigging easier and quicker. It's common in a recording studio to have
all the channel inputs duplicated on wall boxes so one ends up as an
unterminated pair sitting across the used one. But TV studios have much
longer cable runs - and production lighting with interference creating
dimmers - so this approach can't be used.

I'm thinking that it is pretty much a fixture as long as all the mic
jacks in the studio are wired into it. I find digital patching so
convenient, it seems like the jack panel wiring becomes something you
set and forget.

I'm sure it will come - and indeed may already be here. But there are lots
of dark studios in the UK since so much is now done on location or a
cheaper (on paper) venue. So few are having lots of money spent on them.

--
*I went to school to become a wit, only got halfway through.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in
message
In article
, Arny
Krueger wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in
message

Yes - recording studios have *very* simple jackfields
compared to a large GP TV studio.

If a TV studio has a digital console, doesn't the
jackfield become either static or just plain not used?

No. The mics are still analogue with the A to D being
done within the console - or apparatus area.

I presumed that was the case.

In the last
one I visited. That's not to say it won't ever change -
and rightly so since mic jackfields do give problems when
they wear. But are a necessity in a large TV studio which
will have many times the number of mic sockets than
channel inputs - to make rigging easier and quicker.

The charm of having as much of the wiring already in place is great. Putting
down and taking up cables is a major time consumer for job setup and
teardown, particularly when several cables run over the same path for part
of the way. Pulling a cable that is buried under many others is no fun.

I'm thinking of a TV station with a console like my 02R96 or a DM2000. The
02R96 has 24 fader knobs but can control 56 channels. The DM2000 has 32
fader knobs and can control 96 channels. If one has enough mic preamps
(mostly on expansion chassis mounted near the console and available for as
little as $25/channel) one can use the console's built-in digital patch bay
to pick which channels you need for a particular job and patch them
digitally to the upper layer(s) for your mixing convenience.

A DM2000 could cover every input jack in a studio with 96 input jacks. For
the 02R96, merely 56. The hardware patch panel in the studio would then be
patched with 96 jumpers that would simply stay in the same places
indefinately. A new studio would need no patch panel at all. Changing
patches on a digital console is an internal function, and there is memory
for 99 different sets of patches.

I presume that few jobs involve more than 24 or 32 microphones which can all
be patched to the first layer. Of course you can still handle larger jobs by
using the second and third layers. The DM2000 has 4 layers.

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in
message
In article
, Arny
Krueger wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in
message

Yes - recording studios have *very* simple jackfields
compared to a large GP TV studio.

If a TV studio has a digital console, doesn't the
jackfield become either static or just plain not used?

No. The mics are still analogue with the A to D being
done within the console - or apparatus area.

I presumed that was the case.

In the last
one I visited. That's not to say it won't ever change -
and rightly so since mic jackfields do give problems when
they wear. But are a necessity in a large TV studio which
will have many times the number of mic sockets than
channel inputs - to make rigging easier and quicker.

The charm of having as much of the wiring already in place is great.
Putting down and taking up cables is a major time consumer for job setup
and teardown, particularly when several cables run over the same path for
part of the way. Pulling a cable that is buried under many others is no
fun.

I'm thinking of a TV station with a console like my 02R96 or a DM2000. The
02R96 has 24 fader knobs but can control 56 channels. The DM2000 has 32
fader knobs and can control 96 channels. If one has enough mic preamps
(mostly on expansion chassis mounted near the console and available for as
little as $25/channel) one can use the console's built-in digital patch
bay to pick which channels you need for a particular job and patch them
digitally to the upper layer(s) for your mixing convenience.

A DM2000 could cover every input jack in a studio with 96 input jacks. For
the 02R96, merely 56. The hardware patch panel in the studio would then
be patched with 96 jumpers that would simply stay in the same places
indefinately. A new studio would need no patch panel at all. Changing
patches on a digital console is an internal function, and there is memory
for 99 different sets of patches.

I presume that few jobs involve more than 24 or 32 microphones which can
all be patched to the first layer. Of course you can still handle larger
jobs by using the second and third layers. The DM2000 has 4 layers.



sniff sniff

??

Would everyone check their shoes please - there's a dreadful smell of
(bull)**** in here....

In article ,
Arny Krueger wrote:
I presume that few jobs involve more than 24 or 32 microphones which can
all be patched to the first layer. Of course you can still handle
larger jobs by using the second and third layers. The DM2000 has 4
layers.

TV types tend to be rather conservative and want discrete faders one per
channel at all times. And long throw 25mm wide ones. Which sort of
determines the size of the console. Rather large, ;-) Recording studios
too in general. Of course if you need portability, things change.

--
*Do infants enjoy infancy as much as adults enjoy adultery?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.