OT - Everything is perfect
 

"Mike Gilmour" wrote in message
...

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 13:47:26 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:

Measurements vs. 'listening' arguments.

Valves vs. solid state arguments.

Analogue vs. 'digital' arguments.

Guess who's got nothing else in his 'armoury'....??

That would be you, would it not? I always use listening tests as the
final arbiter of excellence, I always acknowledge that there are a few
excellent valve amps around,

A few??? Apart from ARC, Prem 8 etc. it would be good to get your
comments on some of these manufacturers of valve amplifiers:
(& I've left out many of the current amp manufacturers otherwise it will
go on & on

Audio Note (ok we know already)
Audio Research "" "" )
Berning
Carver
Cary
Cochran
Convergent Audio
CJ (I think we know)
Counterpoint SA4
Dynaco
Ensemble
FM Acoustics
Jadis (I can guess)
Jovox
George Kaye (Nepenthe)
Klimo
Lazarus
Lectron
MFA
Melos
Milbert
Music Reference
Nestorovic Labs
Nobis
Pointsource
Quad
Quicksilver
Scientific Fidelity
Sheppard
Sonic Frontiers
Soundtech
Tube Research Labs
VAC
VTL & Manley
Verdier
Woodside/Radford


So few good ones?

Audio Innovations, Beard - budget by tube standards but surely a place in
the 'excellent' rating?

Rob

OT - Everything is perfect
 

In article , Mike Gilmour
wrote:

[snip list]

Where's Graff ?

I recorgnise a number of the names that were in the initial list. However
I'm not sure about 'Graff'.

There was a valve amp reviewed in the hifi mags some while ago, and my
(unreliable) recollection is that it had an output impedance of over an
Ohm, and distortion levels over 1 percent and was a 'Graff' product. Is
this correct?


That's going on 50 amplifier manufacturers for now, producing countless
valve power amplifier models and you inform us that there are just a 'few
excellent valve amps around'

I'm not going to add any comments here as the conclusion is obvious to all.


Well the only "obvious conclusion" I could draw from a list of names is that
the numer anyone decided was "excellent" would depend upon the definition
they decided to use for that term... Particularly as it was a list of
brand names rather than models with relevant information.


Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

OT - Everything is perfect
 

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 19:08:54 GMT, "Dave xxxxx"
wrote:

Mike Gilmour wrote:
"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 13:47:26 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:

Measurements vs. 'listening' arguments.

Valves vs. solid state arguments.

Analogue vs. 'digital' arguments.

Guess who's got nothing else in his 'armoury'....??

That would be you, would it not? I always use listening tests as the
final arbiter of excellence, I always acknowledge that there are a
few excellent valve amps around,

A few??? Apart from ARC, Prem 8 etc. it would be good to get your
comments on some of these manufacturers of valve amplifiers:
(& I've left out many of the current amp manufacturers otherwise it
will go on & on

Audio Note (ok we know already) - I don't use that kind of language!
Audio Research "" "" ) - mostly very good
Berning - dunno
Carver - crap
Cary - seriously crap
Cochran - dunno
Convergent Audio - dunno
CJ (I think we know) - mostly good
Counterpoint SA4 - not bad
Dynaco - mostly bad
Ensemble - dunno
FM Acoustics - dunno
Jadis (I can guess) - seriously crap
Jovox - dunno
George Kaye (Nepenthe) - dunno
Klimo - dunno
Lazarus - dunno
Lectron - dunno
MFA - dunno
Melos - preamps are excellent
Milbert - dunno
Music Reference - dunno
Nestorovic Labs - dodgy
Nobis - dunno
Pointsource - dunno
Quad - overpriced retro rubbish, trading on reputation
Quicksilver - decent for valves but not great in general terms
Scientific Fidelity - never heard of 'em, but a dumb name for a valve
amp maker
Sheppard - overpriced retro rubbish, trading on reputation
Sonic Frontiers - good premps
Soundtech - overpriced retro rubbish, trading on reputation
Tube Research Labs - there ain't no such thing..........
VAC - dunno
VTL & Manley - good rep, never heard them
Verdier - dunno
Woodside/Radford - overpriced retro rubbish, trading on reputation

Where's Graff ?

And how could any serious valvey have left out Nagra?
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

I mentioned Nagra in a previous post to you in your long and inexplicable
attacks on valve amplifiers so I'd expected you to at least remember that.
So while other folk are still providing further manufacturers names but you
are still avoiding an answer - am I surprised? No, because you always trot
out the same few makes and say they sound exactly like solid state. Do they
really???? - I've heard the Prem 8's & there is also a past owner in the
group. Time to fess up - you really don't know what you're talking about do
you?

OT - Everything is perfect
 

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 19:08:54 GMT, "Dave xxxxx"
wrote:

Mike Gilmour wrote:
"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 13:47:26 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:

Tube Research Labs - there ain't no such thing..........

Really Mr Pinkerton know all. Any Serious valvies would know about the King
of valves
Tube Research Labs:
Models

GTPR800 1600W $60,000.00
GTR800 1600W $45,000.00
GT400 Platinum Ed. 800W pentode
GT400
TR300

Again not Richer Sounds stuff - where obviously you do most of your
listening. Maybe you should get out a lot more (in your spitfire perhaps)
Bwhaaaaaahaha.

OT - Everything is perfect
 

Pinkie - They just don't understand me - my passion, my leadership
qualities,
my importance in the scheme of things. If they'd been there when I won the
Second World War single handed with my Spitfire they'd know they were
dealing
with a real man. They're wimps, all wimps.
Mrs. P - wash your hands and I'll come and help you with the crossword
when
I've done the washing up.
(to be continued.)

=== Andy Evans ===
Visit our Website:- http://www.artsandmedia.com


No that can't be right Andy.
SP couldn't have been a Spitfire pilot.
They had valve electronics :-))))


Iain

OT - Everything is perfect
 

"Keith G" wrote in message
...
Andy, that was a hoot and right on the money - if you meant to infer
Pinky's Spitfire was only about 6 inches long, that is! (He plays with
'model planes' apparently!! :-)

Anyway, I think I'm about done with the clown and it would be good (but
not *vital*....) to know that one or two others have also finally got fed
up with his never-ending bull****.

Hi Keith.

What a pity that such an interesting thread has turned into a brawl.
I am sure if we were all sitting round a table in face to face discussion,
that each of us would behave like a perfect gentleman. NG's seem to
bring out the worst in people:-((

The very idea that valves and vinyl have no place in an 'audio' newsgroup
simply beggars belief.

Agreed.

The suggestion that anyone in the UK who enjoys/uses either or both should
**** off to a predominently US-centric group to discuss valves is the kind
of towering arrogance that, frankly, saddens me to see go unchallenged
here for so much of the time.

RAT is a good group. I have been a member for a very long time. Oddly
enough,
one rarely sees the words "Bull****" or "Asshole" written there, which leads
me
to wonder if these are the vocabularly of the SS experts:-))

After all, it is just a matter of personal taste, and a crusade to convert
the heathens
is pointless. It is an interesting fact that valve audio was all but
extinct in the late
70's, all of the 80's and most of the 90's. So a whole generation of
listeners (I
avoid the word audiophiles) had grown up not knowing or having heard a
valve
amp. Then, suddenly "glow in the dark" began to gain popularity, and is now
going from strength to strength. What does that tell us? High end valve
audio
contains a lot of iron, and is very expensive. I don't believe there is any
hype,
it is simply that many people think that valve amplifiers sound better.

This something that SP just cannot accept.
He may like his Honda Civic. I prefer my Armstrong Siddeley:-))

Iain

OT - Everything is perfect
 

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 19:08:54 GMT, "Dave xxxxx"
wrote:

Mike Gilmour wrote:
"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 13:47:26 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:

Measurements vs. 'listening' arguments.

Valves vs. solid state arguments.

Analogue vs. 'digital' arguments.

Guess who's got nothing else in his 'armoury'....??

That would be you, would it not? I always use listening tests as the
final arbiter of excellence, I always acknowledge that there are a
few excellent valve amps around,

A few??? Apart from ARC, Prem 8 etc. it would be good to get your
comments on some of these manufacturers of valve amplifiers:
(& I've left out many of the current amp manufacturers otherwise it
will go on & on

Audio Note (ok we know already) - I don't use that kind of language!
Audio Research "" "" ) - mostly very good
Berning - dunno
Carver - crap
Cary - seriously crap
Cochran - dunno
Convergent Audio - dunno
CJ (I think we know) - mostly good
Counterpoint SA4 - not bad
Dynaco - mostly bad
Ensemble - dunno
FM Acoustics - dunno
Jadis (I can guess) - seriously crap
Jovox - dunno
George Kaye (Nepenthe) - dunno
Klimo - dunno
Lazarus - dunno
Lectron - dunno
MFA - dunno
Melos - preamps are excellent
Milbert - dunno
Music Reference - dunno
Nestorovic Labs - dodgy
Nobis - dunno
Pointsource - dunno
Quad - overpriced retro rubbish, trading on reputation
Quicksilver - decent for valves but not great in general terms
Scientific Fidelity - never heard of 'em, but a dumb name for a valve
amp maker
Sheppard - overpriced retro rubbish, trading on reputation
Sonic Frontiers - good premps
Soundtech - overpriced retro rubbish, trading on reputation
Tube Research Labs - there ain't no such thing..........
VAC - dunno
VTL & Manley - good rep, never heard them
Verdier - dunno
Woodside/Radford - overpriced retro rubbish, trading on reputation

Where's Graff ?

And how could any serious valvey have left out Nagra?

Or McIntosh, plus the host of small custom builders.

But Radford - overpriced retro rubbish?
Pistols at dawn, Sir!!

I am pretty sure you have never even heard an STA100.
They were built for professional use, and as far as I
know you don't qualify:-))


Iain

OT - Everything is perfect
 

"Iain M Churches" wrote in message
...

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 19:08:54 GMT, "Dave xxxxx"
wrote:

Mike Gilmour wrote:
"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 13:47:26 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:

Measurements vs. 'listening' arguments.

Valves vs. solid state arguments.

Analogue vs. 'digital' arguments.

Guess who's got nothing else in his 'armoury'....??

That would be you, would it not? I always use listening tests as the
final arbiter of excellence, I always acknowledge that there are a
few excellent valve amps around,

A few??? Apart from ARC, Prem 8 etc. it would be good to get your
comments on some of these manufacturers of valve amplifiers:
(& I've left out many of the current amp manufacturers otherwise it
will go on & on

Audio Note (ok we know already) - I don't use that kind of language!
Audio Research "" "" ) - mostly very good
Berning - dunno
Carver - crap
Cary - seriously crap
Cochran - dunno
Convergent Audio - dunno
CJ (I think we know) - mostly good
Counterpoint SA4 - not bad
Dynaco - mostly bad
Ensemble - dunno
FM Acoustics - dunno
Jadis (I can guess) - seriously crap
Jovox - dunno
George Kaye (Nepenthe) - dunno
Klimo - dunno
Lazarus - dunno
Lectron - dunno
MFA - dunno
Melos - preamps are excellent
Milbert - dunno
Music Reference - dunno
Nestorovic Labs - dodgy
Nobis - dunno
Pointsource - dunno
Quad - overpriced retro rubbish, trading on reputation
Quicksilver - decent for valves but not great in general terms
Scientific Fidelity - never heard of 'em, but a dumb name for a valve
amp maker
Sheppard - overpriced retro rubbish, trading on reputation
Sonic Frontiers - good premps
Soundtech - overpriced retro rubbish, trading on reputation
Tube Research Labs - there ain't no such thing..........
VAC - dunno
VTL & Manley - good rep, never heard them
Verdier - dunno
Woodside/Radford - overpriced retro rubbish, trading on reputation

Where's Graff ?

And how could any serious valvey have left out Nagra?

Or McIntosh, plus the host of small custom builders.

But Radford - overpriced retro rubbish?
Pistols at dawn, Sir!!

I am pretty sure you have never even heard an STA100.
They were built for professional use, and as far as I
know you don't qualify:-))


Iain


Iain

That list was spur of the moment, all through the day other makes keep
coming to mind. I even missed Beard out and I've got a P100 sitting in a box
by the computer :-) I agree with you about Radford.

Mike

OT - Everything is perfect
 

"Iain M Churches" wrote in message
...

"Keith G" wrote in message
...
Andy, that was a hoot and right on the money - if you meant to infer
Pinky's Spitfire was only about 6 inches long, that is! (He plays with
'model planes' apparently!! :-)

Anyway, I think I'm about done with the clown and it would be good (but
not *vital*....) to know that one or two others have also finally got fed
up with his never-ending bull****.

Hi Keith.

What a pity that such an interesting thread has turned into a brawl.
I am sure if we were all sitting round a table in face to face discussion,
that each of us would behave like a perfect gentleman. NG's seem to
bring out the worst in people:-((

The very idea that valves and vinyl have no place in an 'audio' newsgroup
simply beggars belief.

Agreed.

The suggestion that anyone in the UK who enjoys/uses either or both
should **** off to a predominently US-centric group to discuss valves is
the kind of towering arrogance that, frankly, saddens me to see go
unchallenged here for so much of the time.

RAT is a good group. I have been a member for a very long time. Oddly
enough,
one rarely sees the words "Bull****" or "Asshole" written there, which
leads me
to wonder if these are the vocabularly of the SS experts:-))

After all, it is just a matter of personal taste, and a crusade to convert
the heathens
is pointless. It is an interesting fact that valve audio was all but
extinct in the late
70's, all of the 80's and most of the 90's. So a whole generation of
listeners (I
avoid the word audiophiles) had grown up not knowing or having heard a
valve
amp. Then, suddenly "glow in the dark" began to gain popularity, and is
now
going from strength to strength. What does that tell us? High end valve
audio
contains a lot of iron, and is very expensive. I don't believe there is
any hype,
it is simply that many people think that valve amplifiers sound better.

This something that SP just cannot accept.
He may like his Honda Civic. I prefer my Armstrong Siddeley:-))

Iain
Usenet bandwidth alert!
Pleeze don't start Pinkers on about cars!!!.. ZZZzzzzzz

OT - Everything is perfect
 

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 18:32:17 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:


"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
. ..
On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 13:47:26 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:
The amusing thing is that one or two of us have
imbued him (offlist) in the past with a 'fat, psychotic wife' and, I
have
to
say, it's kinda ****ed up my enjoyment of the PF 'The Wall' DVDV that
I've
got!! :-)

Now would be a very good time to walk away from that argument,
Garratt.


Really? Why is that then, Pinkerton?

(Walk away? Me? That *would* be a first... ;-)

If you want a little 'get-out' before your pudgy little fingertips start
writing a cheque your arse can't cash (again), rest assured we trust that
your wife isn't actually fat or psychotic - it just goes with the 'image',
IYSWIM. (In fact, it is generally agreed that she deserves a medal for a)
putting up with your bull**** and b) putting up with those fekkin' dire
speakers in the house....!! :-)

Apology accepted.


Apology? Wot apology?

I don't doubt it would make you happy (deserately so) to twist an 'apology'
out of my words, but let me assure you no 'apology' to *you* was implied - I
merely didn't want to implicate your wife in the *excellent* image of a
Scottish Gob****e bully-boy as prtrayed by Pink Floyd, like I said.

I'll give you another little 'get-out' - let's say the fat and psychotic
female in your life is that big bird at work you are so obviously scared of,
eh? (Clue: When pricks like you start chucking phrases like 'pussy-whipped'
about, you are telling us more about yourself than your 'CV' ever will....
;-)

Now STFU unless you blag yourself into hole you can't get out of.


But at 6'3" and 13 stone dripping wet, my fingers
aren't exactly pudgy! Old and wrinkly, certainly.... :-(


Woss all this crap - are you trying to *intimidate* me or summat??? :-))

Lemme help you out here - I'm 5 inches shorter than you, weigh a tad more
than 13 stone and I ain't pudgy *anywhere*, OK??

OK, now that I've remembered it, I'll relieve you of the task of coming up
with some humour to alleviate the situation (your SOP...): A month or few
ago, I was watching LOTR on my son's (then) newly-acquired projector - the
'Helm's Deep' (?) battle scene where the old fart with the bow ****s out and
accidentally looses of the the first arrow that sparked off the battle.
After a minute or two, I said 'Oh dear, anybody in LOTR remind you of me?'
Quick as a flash, my son (*not* given to complimenting anyone much) said
'Gimli'....!!

Now, will that do you....??

;-)


rest of the crap snipped