OT - Everything is perfect
 

"Mike Gilmour" wrote in message
...

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 19:08:54 GMT, "Dave xxxxx"
wrote:

Mike Gilmour wrote:
"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 13:47:26 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:

Tube Research Labs - there ain't no such thing..........

Really Mr Pinkerton know all. Any Serious valvies would know about the
King of valves
Tube Research Labs:
Models

GTPR800 1600W $60,000.00
GTR800 1600W $45,000.00
GT400 Platinum Ed. 800W pentode
GT400
TR300

Again not Richer Sounds stuff - where obviously you do most of your
listening. Maybe you should get out a lot more (in your spitfire perhaps)
Bwhaaaaaahaha.


:-)


Mike, I don't claim all these sites will point to 'good' valve amps
(whatever TF that is - I've never heard a bad one...) but if you or anyone
else wants an idea of just how many organisations are involved with valve
gear they could click up and down on the many *hundreds* of links in this
directory:

http://www.worldtubeaudio.com/directory/directory.htm

(Just work up and down the alphabet! ;-)

I don't *know* but I wouldn't be surprised if there weren't *many* more
manufacturers of valve gear than ss in the world today...??

OT - Everything is perfect
 

"Iain M Churches" wrote in message
...

"Keith G" wrote in message
...
Andy, that was a hoot and right on the money - if you meant to infer
Pinky's Spitfire was only about 6 inches long, that is! (He plays with
'model planes' apparently!! :-)

Anyway, I think I'm about done with the clown and it would be good (but
not *vital*....) to know that one or two others have also finally got fed
up with his never-ending bull****.

Hi Keith.

What a pity that such an interesting thread has turned into a brawl.
I am sure if we were all sitting round a table in face to face discussion,
that each of us would behave like a perfect gentleman. NG's seem to
bring out the worst in people:-((


Hi Iain, it ain't NGs per se, it's the few, gobby, self-appointed
'moderators' that try to control the content of an NG that cause the
problems.

Pains and embarrasses me to find my self trading invective with certain
individuals, but's the only language they seem to understand.


The very idea that valves and vinyl have no place in an 'audio' newsgroup
simply beggars belief.

Agreed.

The suggestion that anyone in the UK who enjoys/uses either or both
should **** off to a predominently US-centric group to discuss valves is
the kind of towering arrogance that, frankly, saddens me to see go
unchallenged here for so much of the time.

RAT is a good group. I have been a member for a very long time. Oddly
enough,
one rarely sees the words "Bull****" or "Asshole" written there, which
leads me
to wonder if these are the vocabularly of the SS experts:-))



To be honest, I find/found RAT to be a bit smug and clicky, also the vast
majority of the content of that group is hardly relevant to the UK valve
scene. They aren't *entirely* without their 'factions' either, I
found....???



After all, it is just a matter of personal taste, and a crusade to convert
the heathens
is pointless. It is an interesting fact that valve audio was all but
extinct in the late
70's, all of the 80's and most of the 90's. So a whole generation of
listeners (I
avoid the word audiophiles) had grown up not knowing or having heard a
valve
amp. Then, suddenly "glow in the dark" began to gain popularity, and is
now
going from strength to strength. What does that tell us? High end valve
audio
contains a lot of iron, and is very expensive. I don't believe there is
any hype,
it is simply that many people think that valve amplifiers sound better.

This something that SP just cannot accept.
He may like his Honda Civic. I prefer my Armstrong Siddeley:-))


Oh yes, now you're talking! Wot fabulous cars they are/were! :-)

(Jeez, even I could take an interest in cars if I had one of them!)

OT - Everything is perfect
 

"Dave xxxxx" wrote in message
k...
Keith G wrote:
"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
...
On 24 Oct 2004 09:06:32 GMT, ohawker (Andy
Evans) wrote:
.......


Pilot?

Wot a fekkin' twerp!!

(About 35 years ago my mate's mum had a Spitfire, but she only *drove*
it....)

My wifes been in a real one years ago lucky sod

no one else flying it these days

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/707095.stm

:-(


That's a sad loss of both life and a fabulous plane

OT - Everything is perfect
 

"Iain M Churches" wrote in message
...

Pinkie - They just don't understand me - my passion, my leadership
qualities,
my importance in the scheme of things. If they'd been there when I won
the
Second World War single handed with my Spitfire they'd know they were
dealing
with a real man. They're wimps, all wimps.
Mrs. P - wash your hands and I'll come and help you with the crossword
when
I've done the washing up.
(to be continued.)

=== Andy Evans ===
Visit our Website:- http://www.artsandmedia.com


No that can't be right Andy.
SP couldn't have been a Spitfire pilot.
They had valve electronics :-))))


So did Migs until *very* recently (and maybe still do, I dunno)......

OT - Everything is perfect
 

I am pretty sure you have never even heard an STA100.

I'm pretty sure you haven't heard a 3 way active system with STA15, STA25 and
STA100! One of my brother's old systems. Speakers were stacked Quad 57s with
Decca ribbons, and two ATC12" subwoofers in 9cu ft cabs. It was about as
awesone as it was space consuming. He got a girlfriend and it vanished within
days. Great things, girlfriends.

=== Andy Evans ===
Visit our Website:- http://www.artsandmedia.com
Audio, music and health pages and interesting links.

OT - Everything is perfect
 

RAT is a good group. I have been a member for a very long time. Oddly
enough, one rarely sees the words "Bull****" or "Asshole" written there

I've lost track of the language between Phil Allison and Patrick Turner - I
haven't read their posts for months! Then there were the great days of Andre
Jute! We could haul out a few gems. The group has really gone dull recently - I
think a few migrated to DIY audio, and the rest are in the Asylum where I hang
out.

=== Andy Evans ===
Visit our Website:- http://www.artsandmedia.com
Audio, music and health pages and interesting links.

OT - Everything is perfect
 

On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 09:51:30 +0100, "Mike Gilmour"
wrote:


"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 19:08:54 GMT, "Dave xxxxx"
wrote:

Mike Gilmour wrote:
"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 13:47:26 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:

Tube Research Labs - there ain't no such thing..........

Really Mr Pinkerton know all. Any Serious valvies would know about the King
of valves
Tube Research Labs:
Models

GTPR800 1600W $60,000.00
GTR800 1600W $45,000.00
GT400 Platinum Ed. 800W pentode
GT400
TR300

Again not Richer Sounds stuff - where obviously you do most of your
listening.

Since you've seen my page on Keith's site, I'll just smile at that
one. Obviously, I'm not a 'serious valvie', and my point was that no
one has had such an exotic beast as a 'tube research lab' for about
fifty years. That would be rather akin to a buggy whip research lab.
It's called progress.........................
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

OT - Everything is perfect
 

On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 15:43:12 +0300, "Iain M Churches"
wrote:


"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 19:08:54 GMT, "Dave xxxxx"
wrote:

Mike Gilmour wrote:
"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 13:47:26 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:

Measurements vs. 'listening' arguments.

Valves vs. solid state arguments.

Analogue vs. 'digital' arguments.

Guess who's got nothing else in his 'armoury'....??

That would be you, would it not? I always use listening tests as the
final arbiter of excellence, I always acknowledge that there are a
few excellent valve amps around,

A few??? Apart from ARC, Prem 8 etc. it would be good to get your
comments on some of these manufacturers of valve amplifiers:
(& I've left out many of the current amp manufacturers otherwise it
will go on & on

Audio Note (ok we know already) - I don't use that kind of language!
Audio Research "" "" ) - mostly very good
Berning - dunno
Carver - crap
Cary - seriously crap
Cochran - dunno
Convergent Audio - dunno
CJ (I think we know) - mostly good
Counterpoint SA4 - not bad
Dynaco - mostly bad
Ensemble - dunno
FM Acoustics - dunno
Jadis (I can guess) - seriously crap
Jovox - dunno
George Kaye (Nepenthe) - dunno
Klimo - dunno
Lazarus - dunno
Lectron - dunno
MFA - dunno
Melos - preamps are excellent
Milbert - dunno
Music Reference - dunno
Nestorovic Labs - dodgy
Nobis - dunno
Pointsource - dunno
Quad - overpriced retro rubbish, trading on reputation
Quicksilver - decent for valves but not great in general terms
Scientific Fidelity - never heard of 'em, but a dumb name for a valve
amp maker
Sheppard - overpriced retro rubbish, trading on reputation
Sonic Frontiers - good premps
Soundtech - overpriced retro rubbish, trading on reputation
Tube Research Labs - there ain't no such thing..........
VAC - dunno
VTL & Manley - good rep, never heard them
Verdier - dunno
Woodside/Radford - overpriced retro rubbish, trading on reputation

Where's Graff ?

And how could any serious valvey have left out Nagra?

Or McIntosh, plus the host of small custom builders.

Whoops - yes indeed, shame on me!

But Radford - overpriced retro rubbish?
Pistols at dawn, Sir!!

If you're challenging, I'll take swords, thanks.

I am pretty sure you have never even heard an STA100.
They were built for professional use, and as far as I
know you don't qualify:-))

Indeed it's true that I'm not prematurely deaf, and I was referring to
the modern units. Back in the '60s when the STA 15/25/100 were *new*
models, they were of reference quality. We do however have this thing
called progress, and any decent modern 100 watt SS amp will totally
outclass the STA 100, especially into the typical 3-6ohm modern
loudspeaker.
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

OT - Everything is perfect
 

On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 08:57:44 +0100, Jim Lesurf
wrote:

In article , Mike Gilmour
wrote:

[snip list]

Where's Graff ?

I recorgnise a number of the names that were in the initial list. However
I'm not sure about 'Graff'.

He means Graaf, an Italian maker. I would have included Unison
Research, another Italian maker.

There was a valve amp reviewed in the hifi mags some while ago, and my
(unreliable) recollection is that it had an output impedance of over an
Ohm, and distortion levels over 1 percent and was a 'Graff' product. Is
this correct?

Quite likely.

That's going on 50 amplifier manufacturers for now, producing countless
valve power amplifier models and you inform us that there are just a 'few
excellent valve amps around'

Yup, since most of those you listed are severely limited by comparison
to any decent 500 quid SS amp, hence not 'excellent' by any reasonable
standard.

I'm not going to add any comments here as the conclusion is obvious to all.

Well the only "obvious conclusion" I could draw from a list of names is that
the numer anyone decided was "excellent" would depend upon the definition
they decided to use for that term... Particularly as it was a list of
brand names rather than models with relevant information.

Quite so..............
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

OT - Everything is perfect
 

"Andy Evans" wrote in message
...
RAT is a good group.

I've lost track of the language between Phil Allison and Patrick Turner -
I
haven't read their posts for months! Then there were the great days of
Andre
Jute! We could haul out a few gems. The group has really gone dull
recently - I
think a few migrated to DIY audio, and the rest are in the Asylum where I
hang
out.

Yes of course there were/are factions. (Andre is back by the way, having
been paid a seven figure settlement by the Magnaquest Mob!!) He is
probably
counting in Italian Lira:-)

But the level of expertise seems to be higher on RAT, and less character
bashing. Maybe that's because owning and operating a valve system is
a more "hands on" experience.

I know of several clever, well informed audio people who watch
this group, but do not take part for fear of the flaming they might receive.
That's a great pity because it deprives us all of their knowledge.

What can be done?

Iain