Valve amp (preferably DIY) to drive apair of Wharfedale Diamond II's
 

In article , Ian Molton
wrote:
Nick Gorham wrote:
Ian Molton wrote:


The point I am making is that it may not be so simple as a "effect
block" that could be added to any "transparent" amplifier.

Why would adding an 'effect block' not allow an otherwise transparent
system to reproduce the effect?

Hey, you lifted that one coment out of the context of my other replies.
no fair.

Im open to the idea that there may be 'magic unmeasureable' factors at
play, but given amplifier technology is fairly well understood and hasnt
really changed much in years,

Bear in mind that our lack of understanding may not be in "amplifier
technology" but in the implications of the physiology of human hearing.


you would need to provide some solid basis for believing that, starting
with listening tests.

I would agree. Also trying to establish a 'language' that is well founded
and relevant as a guide.

[snip]

Well if you want adjustable controlls, I'd suggest a DSP these days.

But running what process, exactly? :-)

If you just want 'valve sound' applied to everything, simply use a
crappy valve amp and quit worrying about hi fi.

Well, that isn't what I personally want. :-)

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

Valve amp (preferably DIY) to drive apair of Wharfedale Diamond II's
 

In article , Nick Gorham
wrote:


What if the effect was real, and not dependent on what you describe as
the "undesirable" effects of a valve amp, what if the percieved
improvements were possible without affecting your transparency ?

This is one of the questions I find particularly interesting, but feel we
are currently not in a position to answer.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

Valve amp (preferably DIY) to drive apair of Wharfedale Diamond
 

Marks spending a lot of time getting the best out of the first stage of
the Amity,

I was never convinced by the ECC99, since in my view good 6J5Gs, 6P5Gs and
2C22s sounded clearly better to my ears.

last I heard he was going to swap the Lundhal phase splitter for something
that didn't require 600R drive to make the job of his pre simpiler.

Ditto - I don't use transformer coupling, I use Russian teflon caps. I bought a
box of 20 of the FT3 type from Anton (Tony Welsh) which are .1uF, so that gave
me two caps of 1uF. This is fine into 50K, i.e. a 100k out into a 100k stepped
attenuator. Put 250k on the input of the amp and where's the problem.

If I hear of another get together involving Mark I will let you know.

OK

I suspect you know Chris V

Quiet, introverted sort of guy, very shy but I'm sure there's a hint of
personality behind the bland exterior...........

=== Andy Evans ===
Visit our Website:- http://www.artsandmedia.com
Audio, music and health pages and interesting links.

Valve amp (preferably DIY) to drive apair of Wharfedale Diamond II's
 

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Trevor Wilson" wrote


**Your attempts at projection, is duly noted.


As is your crappy grammar...

**Thank you for being so rude. Do you REALLY want to play that game?


OK, a quick apology for that, then - I didn't mean to 'wound' you! (Just
a bit of 'jab/counter jab' argy bargy.... ;-)

**Hmmm. OK. I'll let it drop.


You will? That's a relief!! :-)

**For me too. Your writing is appallingly bad. It would take all day to
dissect just one post.


Hang on on though, I didn't mean to spoil your fun - go ahead if you had
something planned. Apology withdrawn.....

**Yeah, well, tough. I'm not stooping to your level. If you want to,
however, continue, if it makes you feel superior.


(Prick....)


That's where it all hangs. We get battered to fekkin' death in here by
people hurling the phrase 'audible distortion' about like it glows in
the dark!! (Ooop, possibly a bad simile - we'll see how it goes....)
What I want to know is, without setting up some costly pseudoscientific
experiment up, how can Joe Ordinaire tell when an amp is 'audibly
distorting'???

**Asked and answered.


Nope. Ducked and dived again. You have no answer.

**I provided a concise and reasonable answer. That you did not like my
answer, is not my problem. If you feel my suggestion is in any way
impossible, or unreasonable, feel free to point out any logical
inconsistency.




(I'm further making the point that if he don't know, then it don't
bloody matter much, does it??)

**To him? Perhaps not. However, those who listen to distroting amps, are
rather like those blissfully ignorant Bose listeners - they know no
better and keep their head buried in the sand. Sure, Bose sounds better
than nothing, but that is about it.


Uh oh. I've got a row of orange lights on my 'Nutter Alert Panel' now.....

**The analogy is perfectly reasonable and rational.



**That is not the way I see it. People come here for a variety of
reasons. These include:
* A genuine attempt to gain knowledge.
* A genuine attempt to impart knowledge.
* To sell something.
* To buy something.
* To engage in casual banter with like-minded individuals.
* To gain some kind of ego trip, by employing arguments to win over
another.
* A combination of the above.
* Other stuff, not listed.


Other stuff not listed, eh??? Hmmm...???

**Nothing mysterious. I just ran out of easy stuff.


(Those orange lights have just turned red!!)



If a person approaches with genuine questions, he/she is likely to be
received and treated fairly. If that person approaches with a
pre-conceived set of notions, but with no way of logically backing those
notions, he/she will be shot down in flames.


Really? That's sounds pretty scary.

**Not at all. A bunch of dots on a monitor never hurt anyone.


Tell you what me old china - do yourself a favour here and consider that
Usenet, the Web etc. has moved way beyond the realm of spotty geekboys
using an after hours school computer....

**Duh.




'Cos the point is, if you have to go and buy a *good* amp (when we are
told all ss amps over £300 qualify as 'good' ??)

**I never said anything of the kind. Moreover, I don't beleive that
anyone ever said anything like that.


Oh yes they did - it wuz Pinkypoof.

**Cite please.


Sorry, you'll have to find it yourself.

**Well, Stinky just stated that he NEVER said anything of the sort. So, I
guess, that without supporting evidence, we can conclude:

a) You're lying.
b) You've got a few lost sheep in the top paddock (ie: You're nuts).
c) You've made a genuine mistake.
d) Stinky is lying.

You choose. If it is d), you need to provide some supporting evidence.




feel that it has been said, then please provide a suitable cite. I
have measured some truly bad (SS) amps, which cost considerably more
than 300 Squid.


Again with the hints and allegations - fekkin' name one. (Whisper it if
you're scared of getting a law suit...!!!)

**Not me. See my list below. I'll begin assembling a comprehensive list,
as time allows.


Ooh, **** me - don't bother. I'm not that interested....

**Then why the **** did you ask?


(Jeez, there's a Klaxon going off now.....!!!)

**Settle down Keith. Those noises are just inside your own head. Go take
your pills and have a nice lie down. You'll feel better tomorrow.







to check out the amp you already
have, then the whole point of the exercise is a teensy weensy little
bit lost innit??

**Nope. The FIRST thing to do, in ensure that the prospective amp meets
my suggested list of specs. That is a good start.


Read what it says on the box, eh? :-)

**You'll need a good deal more than that. Most manufacturers do not
publish all the specs I listed. They're much too hard to acheive.

????

**If you have a specific question pertaining to that comment, please feel
free to ask. My meaing seems clear enough to me. But then I wrote it (I
know: Never begin a sentence with a preposition).


OK, that's it. That's enough. That'll do me...

My Nutter Alert Panel's belching smoke now! Time I left you to it, I
think!

Have a good day/night whatever it is! (Can you actually see outside..??
:-)

**It's 9:23PM, so, no. It's dark.



(Wot a fekkin' idiot.....!!!)

**Is that the best you can do?


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

Valve amp (preferably DIY) to drive apair of Wharfedale Diamond
 

Andy Evans wrote:
Marks spending a lot of time getting the best out of the first stage of
the Amity,

I was never convinced by the ECC99, since in my view good 6J5Gs, 6P5Gs and
2C22s sounded clearly better to my ears.

The little I now of them is that if you run them at the quoted op
popints they are somewhat overwarm and congested, but if you underrun
them they clean up quite a bit.

--
Nick

Valve amp (preferably DIY) to drive apair of Wharfedale Diamond
 

The little I now of them is that if you run them at the quoted op points they
are somewhat overwarm and congested, but if you underrun them they clean up
quite a bit.

Yes - warm describes them. And ultimately a lack of fine detail. Very good as a
phase splitter - not so hot as a voltage stage.

=== Andy Evans ===
Visit our Website:- http://www.artsandmedia.com
Audio, music and health pages and interesting links.

Valve amp (preferably DIY) to drive apair of Wharfedale Diamond II's
 

In article ,
Patrick Turner wrote:
One guy wanted to trade in his SS preamp full of oppamps for the tube pre
I had made after he had a listen.

And what was he listening to that wasn't 'full' of oppamps' when recorded?

If tube pre amps are so essential, you'll have a *very* restricted choice
of recordings to enjoy...

--
*I have plenty of talent and vision. I just don't care.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Valve amp (preferably DIY) to drive apair of Wharfedale Diamond
 

Andy Evans wrote:
Marks spending a lot of time getting the best out of the first stage of
the Amity,

I was never convinced by the ECC99, since in my view good 6J5Gs, 6P5Gs and
2C22s sounded clearly better to my ears.

last I heard he was going to swap the Lundhal phase splitter for something
that didn't require 600R drive to make the job of his pre simpiler.

Ditto - I don't use transformer coupling, I use Russian teflon caps. I bought a
box of 20 of the FT3 type from Anton (Tony Welsh) which are .1uF, so that gave
me two caps of 1uF. This is fine into 50K, i.e. a 100k out into a 100k stepped
attenuator. Put 250k on the input of the amp and where's the problem.

He still intends to use TX coupling, the amity doesn't make sense
without that, he was going to use a input phase splitter that was a
easyier load.

--
Nick

Valve amp (preferably DIY) to drive apair of Wharfedale DiamondII's
 

Jim Lesurf wrote:
In article , Nick Gorham
wrote:



What if the effect was real, and not dependent on what you describe as
the "undesirable" effects of a valve amp, what if the percieved
improvements were possible without affecting your transparency ?


This is one of the questions I find particularly interesting, but feel we
are currently not in a position to answer.

Yes, I agree with all you have replied to on this thread, and do
understand the first part of understanding the problem is the creation
of a agreed language to describe what we are looking at.

Problem is, I am not sure just where to go next :-(

--
Nick

Valve amp (preferably DIY) to drive apair of Wharfedale Diamond II's
 

"Trevor Wilson" wrote


**I provided a concise and reasonable answer. That you did not like my
answer, is not my problem. If you feel my suggestion is in any way
impossible, or unreasonable, feel free to point out any logical
inconsistency.


Try again, maybe it'll filter through if you keep it simple - how does
someone with *no* measuring equipment know when an amplifier is distorting
*audibly* (like, by using his *ears*)????

(Only it's a commonly used phrase in here and I have no idea what's meant by
it.)


**Well, Stinky just stated that he NEVER said anything of the sort. So, I
guess, that without supporting evidence, we can conclude:


My recollection is that he said *something very like* any ss amp costing
£300 or more qualified as 'good' at the same time he made some stupid remark
(equally forgotten now) about valve amps - a subject he knows nothing about
in the modern context, btw.

Anyway, forget it - it is of absolutely no consequence (as usual.....)....


OK, that's it. That's enough. That'll do me...


One last thing. Tell me, it was *you* forging my name in here a little while
back wasn't it??

;-)