"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Keith G" wrote in message



And CD lovers tend to give the impression there are no
poorly recorded CDs,


Straw man argument, if not an out-an-out lie!


Just a little too selectively snipped for me, Arny - go say the same to
Plowie for "Vinyl lovers tend to give the
impression there are no poorly recorded LPs." and we'll maybe continue
the debate....

....but not for a while, I'm off out on me motorcycle while the sun's
shining!! :-)

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..
"Keith G" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..
"Keith G" wrote in message


No, as I've said recently elsewhere, I'm heartily sick
of seeing the words 'valvelike' and 'analogue sound'
being applied to SS kit and digital music by silly *hip*
magazine writers.


Agreed, no reason to slander good SS kit and good
digital recordings that way.


Except to *tempt* people to buy it....??

In fact there's virtually no discussion of SS versus tubed audio gear
anyplace but a few esoteric circles. The days of comparsions between
tubed and SS passed along several decades ago, with SS winning
decisively.


Irrelevant.


Here's your challenge - find a significant (3% of the market) amount
of newly-produced media, or even media produced produced in the last
30 years, that didn't pass through at least one SS device.


No, that's *your* challenge and I choose to ignore it - I simply don't
care what equipment is used to produce the music I listen to, I only
know how I prefer to listen to it. I fully expect various combinations
of valve and SS, digital and analogue processes to come into it at some
stage, anyway - depending on what the music is, where and when is was
recorded and produced...

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..
"Keith G" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..
"Keith G" wrote in message


No Arny, you've got that all wrong (unless you are
*distorting* again which, of course, is highly likely) -
it's CDs that are disappearing rapidly.

Not in terms of sales percentages.


No? I would have thought a fall in sales revenue of 19.8%
in just three months was a pretty good indicator:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6933632.stm

OK Keith, so you can't tell the difference between a sales percentage
for vinyl, and an indicator of an ongoing transition from one form of
digital media to another form of digital media.

Not my problem!


I think it is, unless you are deliberately obfuscating/distorting or, as
others imply, failing to read properly or grasp the meaning of my post -
my point was that it is CDs which are disappearing and I provided
evidence. If you want to relate that simple statement to percentages of
the weekly grocery bill or compare it with sales of leather goods or any
other thing which is not a CD, then it *is* your problem.

(Go ask EMI about this bit in particular: "The British group has been
struggling to survive in the face of falling CD sales - particularly in
the US market.")

In article ,
Keith G wrote:
The CD *medium* will always sound better than vinyl - if you value
audio
quality. Individual CDs are a different matter. Rubbish in rubbish
out.
But then that applies to vinyl too. Vinyl lovers tend to give the
impression there are no poorly recorded LPs.



And CD lovers tend to give the impression there are no poorly recorded
CDs, but you should know better than to go by *impressions*...

Lots and lots on here about poor mastering of recent CDs.

Of course had this group existed 30 years ago the complaints would have
been about poor pressings.

--
*Suicidal twin kills sister by mistake.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Sep 1, 9:20 am, "Arny Krueger" wrote:

Here's your challenge - find a significant (3% of the market) amount of
newly-produced media, or even media produced produced in the last 30 years,
that didn't pass through at least one SS device.

Here's your challenge, Arns. Give us the percentage of newly or
recently-produced media that passed through at least one tube device.
Let's exclude instrument amplification, as that will hugely skew the
numbers up.

On Aug 31, 3:54 pm, "Arny Krueger" wrote:
"Keith G" wrote in message





No, as I've said recently elsewhere, I'm heartily sick of
seeing the words 'valvelike' and 'analogue sound' being
applied to SS kit and digital music by silly *hip*
magazine writers.

Agreed, no reason to slander good SS kit and good digital recordings that
way.

Still having trouble accepting that others don't see it your way.

"Keith G" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..
"Keith G" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..
"Keith G" wrote in message



My take is that now that the DJ-driven demand for vinyl is falling off,
and
sales are already dropping preciptiously, the hype will trail off.

No Arny, you've got that all wrong (unless you are
*distorting* again which, of course, is highly
likely) - it's CDs that are disappearing rapidly.

Not in terms of sales percentages.

No? I would have thought a fall in sales revenue of
19.8% in just three months was a pretty good indicator:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6933632.stm

OK Keith, so you can't tell the difference between a
sales percentage for vinyl, and an indicator of an
ongoing transition from one form of digital media to
another form of digital media.

Not my problem!

I think it is, unless you are deliberately
obfuscating/distorting or, as others imply, failing to
read properly or grasp the meaning of my post - my point
was that it is CDs which are disappearing and I provided
evidence.

I reproduced my OP on the topic above, and it doesn't even mention CDs.
Therefore Keith, your attempt to introduce CD sales, given that CDs are a
form of media that I didn't even mention, is an obvious example of a red
herring argument. It's just another one of your an intentional attempt to
mislead the discussion from its origional intent.

The original intent was to make the point that LP sales have dropped
preciptiously in the US in the past year - about 33%.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Keith G wrote:
The CD *medium* will always sound better than vinyl - if you value
audio
quality. Individual CDs are a different matter. Rubbish in rubbish
out.
But then that applies to vinyl too. Vinyl lovers tend to give the
impression there are no poorly recorded LPs.



And CD lovers tend to give the impression there are no poorly recorded
CDs, but you should know better than to go by *impressions*...

Lots and lots on here about poor mastering of recent CDs.

Of course had this group existed 30 years ago the complaints would have
been about poor pressings.

--
*Suicidal twin kills sister by mistake.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Poor pressings were ubiquitous at the time. I started buying LPs in the
sixties, and had a system sufficiently good to appreciate pressing quality
by the late 60s. *Every* LP I bought ultimately dissapointed due to surface
clicks and pops. Try listening to the second movement of Beethoven's Emperor
concerto on LP, and see if you can suspend disbelief that you're scraping
the music off the plastic with a rock on the end of a stick. You'll hear
every click and pop. I used to return 5 or 6 LPs for every one I bought, in
a vain attempt to find a quiet one. I wished and prayed for a distribution
medium that would reproduce the master tape without interference. Cassettes
(self recorded from Radio 3) were rather better, but pre-recorded cassettes
weren't as good as LPs as although they didn't have the impulsive noise,
they had all sorts of other shortcomings. When, in 1977, I first heard what
became CD, (I was working for Philips at the time), it was what I had been
waiting for. What was eventually released after Sony got involved was even
better than Philips's own developments. (As an aside, Philips conceived CD
as an in-car medium only, and the first CDs were rather smaller and of lower
quality, so the player could fit into a standard DIN car radio slot)
*Everything* about CD was as improvement over LP and cassette. Even the much
maligned jewel box, I couldn't see much wrong with it once you got the hang
of opening it. Sleeve art aside, CDs came with a booklet, so even the sleeve
notes were often more comprehensive.

No, for me at least, CD did and still does everything I need from a music
carrier, and I play LPs for fun, (I have three turntables) much as I would
drive a 1930s MG, or when the musical content is more important than the
reproduced quality.

S.

--
http://audiopages.googlepages.com

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..
"Keith G" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..
"Keith G" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..
"Keith G" wrote in message



My take is that now that the DJ-driven demand for vinyl is falling
off, and
sales are already dropping preciptiously, the hype will trail off.

No Arny, you've got that all wrong (unless you are
*distorting* again which, of course, is highly
likely) - it's CDs that are disappearing rapidly.

Not in terms of sales percentages.

No? I would have thought a fall in sales revenue of
19.8% in just three months was a pretty good indicator:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6933632.stm

OK Keith, so you can't tell the difference between a
sales percentage for vinyl, and an indicator of an
ongoing transition from one form of digital media to
another form of digital media.

Not my problem!

I think it is, unless you are deliberately
obfuscating/distorting or, as others imply, failing to
read properly or grasp the meaning of my post - my point
was that it is CDs which are disappearing and I provided
evidence.

I reproduced my OP on the topic above, and it doesn't even mention
CDs. Therefore Keith, your attempt to introduce CD sales, given that
CDs are a form of media that I didn't even mention, is an obvious
example of a red herring argument. It's just another one of your an
intentional attempt to mislead the discussion from its origional
intent.



When you deliberately crosspost into ukra you will get dragged anywhere
us ukranians want to take you. (It's hard, but then life *is* hard -
deal with it....)

AFAIAC and in context, my CD comment was a perfectly valid counter to
the immediately preceding remarks concerning vinyl. I neither know nor
care what was said in the OP - wherever it was and whenever was. (Tbh, I
have been blowing this thread en bloc and have only responded the the
old isolated remark that I have obviously found too difficult to
ignore.)



The original intent was to make the point that LP sales have dropped
preciptiously in the US in the past year - about 33%.


And this?

Just WTF has that to do with the price of pork chops in Saigon? Like,
who TF *cares* - It wouldn't even bother me if it was true for the UK!!

I wish a) these *transatlantic* crosspostings would end and b) I had the
willpower to resist them entirely...

(But I can't. I'll just have to try and live with it! :-))

"Serge Auckland" wrote



Poor pressings were ubiquitous at the time.


??

I dunno, I must be much more easily pleased - I don't remember *ever*
taking an LP back to the shop!! The nearest to that I actually remember
was complaining to an eBay seller about a ropey Bladerunner I had
bought. He said 'Sorry about that, I'll send you a couple more to see if
you can get a good one out of them and I'll complain to my supplier!' -
and he did! It turns out they were brand new *bootlegs* being knocked
out in Germany somewhere!!

Also, I now remember, Swim bought me Bjork's 'Medullah' on vinyl up in
Scotland a couple of years back. Some distance away from the shop, she
stopped and slipped it out to check it (she's bought more vinyl than
most here, I suspect, and knows the score). There were some 'dimples' on
it, so she took it straight back to swap it only to find the two other
copies the shop had were gone in the 10 minutes or so since she left the
shop! Daft sod then got a refund and the net result is I still don't
have Medullah on vinyl yet!! (Dimples don't bother me either!! ;-)

Real time interruption: Swim has just advised me that Mole Jazz has now
closed down forever!!

:-(



I started buying LPs in the
sixties, and had a system sufficiently good to appreciate pressing
quality by the late 60s. *Every* LP I bought ultimately dissapointed
due to surface clicks and pops. Try listening to the second movement
of Beethoven's Emperor concerto on LP, and see if you can suspend
disbelief that you're scraping the music off the plastic with a rock
on the end of a stick. You'll hear every click and pop. I used to
return 5 or 6 LPs for every one I bought, in a vain attempt to find a
quiet one.


Streuth....



*Everything* about CD was as improvement over LP and cassette. Even
the much maligned jewel box, I couldn't see much wrong with it once
you got the hang of opening it.


You're kidding now, Serge - aren't you?


Sleeve art aside, CDs came with a booklet, so even the sleeve
notes were often more comprehensive.


Whaaat? Even the *Demon Digi***** (who shall remain nameless and who is
no longer with us) readily conceded the artwork/sleeve notes were much
better with LPs. Ain't you got any LPs with all the *words* (and
translations) on nice, big, fold-out booklets? (Stuck for the right
name - 'libretti' doesn't seem right....)




No, for me at least, CD did and still does everything I need from a
music carrier, and I play LPs for fun, (I have three turntables) much
as I would drive a 1930s MG, or when the musical content is more
important than the reproduced quality.


But what if you found yourself driving the MG much more than your
'modern' car...???