Good amps all sound the same do they?
 

On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 12:51:54 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:


"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 23:42:04 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 16:52:46 GMT, Bob Latham
wrote:

In article ,
Ian Molton wrote:
Bob Latham wrote:

I would contest the "popular opinion" bit though. I don't know
anyone
(as in spoken face to face) who is remotely interested in Hi-Fi who
would say amplifiers sound the same. I only hear that opinion here.

No. you dont.

the opinion you hear hear is that all *COMPETANT* amps sound the
same -
that is, all amps, able to drive enough current into the load to
accurately replicate the input signal on the output terminals, will
sound identical.

Provided you are also saying that there are very few competent amps
around
I think I could just about swallow that.

Sorry, there are *lots* of competent amps around. The basic
preconditions of no clipping and level matching from 20-20,000 Hz
seems adequate to eliminate the dross.

OK, but 'dross' like what? OK, *all* valves amps - goes without saying,
but
fer gawd's sake give us an example of what you consider to be 'dross'???

That should be obvious - any amplifier which does *not* sound just
like its input signal. And yes Keith, a few valve amps can indeed
passc this fundamental test of fidelity - but they're very expensive.
Think C-J Premier Eight and ARC VT-100 etc.

I would also simplfy things by including all amps with less than 30
watts output per channel into 8 ohms, all amps not capable of driving
a 2 ohm load to at least three times the rated 8-ohm power (at least
for a few seconds, and I'll accept a valve amp used on the 4-ohm tap
for this test), and all amps with more than 0.1% THD from 20Hz to
20kHz at all power levels up to 75% of full output, and more than 0.1%
HF IMD on a two-tone test. Those measurements (boo, hiss!) will IME
ensure that the first and most important condition is met.
--

No, sorry, probably didn't make myself clear - I mean a *specific*
example(s) like 'Cyrus X', 'Quad Y', MF 'Z' or whatever....??

Or, put it another way, what freely available/current make and model amps
would you regard as 'bad'....???

Any single-ended valve amp....., and IME, any amp costing less than
£200 - except from Richer Sounds!
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

Good amps all sound the same do they?
 

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 12:51:54 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:


"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
. ..
On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 23:42:04 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
m...
On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 16:52:46 GMT, Bob Latham
wrote:

In article ,
Ian Molton wrote:
Bob Latham wrote:

I would contest the "popular opinion" bit though. I don't know
anyone
(as in spoken face to face) who is remotely interested in Hi-Fi
who
would say amplifiers sound the same. I only hear that opinion
here.

No. you dont.

the opinion you hear hear is that all *COMPETANT* amps sound the
same -
that is, all amps, able to drive enough current into the load to
accurately replicate the input signal on the output terminals, will
sound identical.

Provided you are also saying that there are very few competent amps
around
I think I could just about swallow that.

Sorry, there are *lots* of competent amps around. The basic
preconditions of no clipping and level matching from 20-20,000 Hz
seems adequate to eliminate the dross.

OK, but 'dross' like what? OK, *all* valves amps - goes without saying,
but
fer gawd's sake give us an example of what you consider to be 'dross'???

That should be obvious - any amplifier which does *not* sound just
like its input signal. And yes Keith, a few valve amps can indeed
passc this fundamental test of fidelity - but they're very expensive.
Think C-J Premier Eight and ARC VT-100 etc.

I would also simplfy things by including all amps with less than 30
watts output per channel into 8 ohms, all amps not capable of driving
a 2 ohm load to at least three times the rated 8-ohm power (at least
for a few seconds, and I'll accept a valve amp used on the 4-ohm tap
for this test), and all amps with more than 0.1% THD from 20Hz to
20kHz at all power levels up to 75% of full output, and more than 0.1%
HF IMD on a two-tone test. Those measurements (boo, hiss!) will IME
ensure that the first and most important condition is met.
--

No, sorry, probably didn't make myself clear - I mean a *specific*
example(s) like 'Cyrus X', 'Quad Y', MF 'Z' or whatever....??

Or, put it another way, what freely available/current make and model amps
would you regard as 'bad'....???

Any single-ended valve amp....., and IME, any amp costing less than
£200 - except from Richer Sounds!


Wot a ****ing stoopid response - so *all* other amps not included in the
above meet with your personal approval, do they? Kinda tough on anyone
trying to get decent sound on a budget, innit? (Glad my chinky cheapy makes
the grade in the 'Official, Pink Amplifiers Guide To The Galaxy'..... :-)

You duck, you dive, you stay alive - but is there any real point to either
*you* or the crap you post?

Good amps all sound the same do they?
 

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 12:28:08 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:


"Ian Molton" wrote in message
...
Bob Latham wrote:

Provided you are also saying that there are very few competent amps
around
I think I could just about swallow that.

There probably a fair number of them. *I* certainly havent auditioned
anywhere close to enough amps to say so.

I'd guess my Quad405 is probably up there in the 'pretty decent' range,
although nowhere near the top of it...


Oh dear oh dear!

Sorry to be on your case today, my little Molton Larva, but all this yap
from you about *hi*fi and distortion etc. and you're running a fekkin'
Quad
405!! Priceless!! Which one - the 405-2?

Anyway, go to http://www.stereophile.com/amplificationreviews/655/ and
follow the links at the bottom of the page......

(Didn't they also double as bun-warmers....???)

Ya hafta fekkin' larf...... :-)

Only if you're a hyena, or someone of equivalent intelligence.........


How TF would you know? - I reckon just about *any* hyena would leave you
miles behind in an 'intelligence race'....



Within its current limit, the 405 (the -2 really just has higher
current limiting) is an extremely linear amp, and fully meets the
'sounds like any other good amp' criterion.


Sez who?

Good amps all sound the same do they?
 

Keith G wrote:

... the 'Official, Pink Amplifiers Guide To The Galaxy'..... :-)

You duck, you dive, you stay alive - but is there any real point to
either *you* or the crap you post?

Entertainment. :-)


--
Wally
www.artbywally.com
www.wally.myby.co.uk

Good amps all sound the same do they?
 

Stewart Pinkerton wrote:

Or, put it another way, what freely available/current make and model
amps would you regard as 'bad'....???

Any single-ended valve amp....., and IME, any amp costing less than
£200 - except from Richer Sounds!

Stewart, you post a lot of articles that make good sense and over my years
of lurking I've actually learned to treat your opinions with respect, even
if I don't agree with them, but that arrant ******** has destroyed any
credibility you had with me.

Good amps all sound the same do they?
 

And yes Keith, a few valve amps can indeed pass this fundamental test of
fidelity - but they're very expensive.
Think C-J Premier Eight and ARC VT-100 etc.

Don't lead Keith up the garden path here - the CJs are a Mullard circuit dating
from a few centuries before Christ, with second rate choices of valves (the
usual suspects like ECC**, EL34s, 6550s etc) and the ARC is no better, and
doesn't even have the luxury of the CJs polystyrene caps. For serious valve
sound start somewhere around Lamm ML1 and the Nagra PP 845 amp and then start
getting better. I used to have a Prem, by the way.

=== Andy Evans ===
Visit our Website:- http://www.artsandmedia.com
Audio, music and health pages and interesting links.

Good amps all sound the same do they?
 

"Andy Evans" wrote in message
...
And yes Keith, a few valve amps can indeed pass this fundamental test of
fidelity - but they're very expensive.
Think C-J Premier Eight and ARC VT-100 etc.

Don't lead Keith up the garden path here - the CJs are a Mullard circuit
dating
from a few centuries before Christ, with second rate choices of valves
(the
usual suspects like ECC**, EL34s, 6550s etc) and the ARC is no better, and
doesn't even have the luxury of the CJs polystyrene caps. For serious
valve
sound start somewhere around Lamm ML1 and the Nagra PP 845 amp and then
start
getting better. I used to have a Prem, by the way.

=== Andy Evans ===
Visit our Website:- http://www.artsandmedia.com
Audio, music and health pages and interesting links.

I agree, the VT-100 also has had several revisions since it came out. The
Prem had several different versions I believe with different power valves
(the Xcess was one if I remember right). How did you get on with the Prem
Andy?


Mike

Good amps all sound the same do they?
 

"Andy Evans" wrote in message
...
And yes Keith, a few valve amps can indeed pass this fundamental test of
fidelity - but they're very expensive.
Think C-J Premier Eight and ARC VT-100 etc.

Don't lead Keith up the garden path here


Fat chance!

Good amps all sound the same do they?
 

"Wally" wrote in message
...
Keith G wrote:

... the 'Official, Pink Amplifiers Guide To The Galaxy'..... :-)

You duck, you dive, you stay alive - but is there any real point to
either *you* or the crap you post?

Entertainment. :-)


Nah, he's like a two disc 'record collection' - starts off fine and then
gets just plain boring.....

Disc 1 - my kit is accurate and 'high fidelity'.....

Disc 2 - yours isn't.......

Disc 1 - my kit is accurate and 'high fidelity'.....

Disc 2 - yours isn't.......

Disc 1 - my kit is accurate and 'high fidelity'.....

Disc 2 - yours isn't.......

Disc 1 - my kit is accurate and 'high fidelity'.....

Disc 2 - yours isn't.......

Disc 1 - my kit is accurate and 'high fidelity'.....

Disc 2 - yours isn't.......

Disc 1 - my kit is accurate and 'high fidelity'.....

Disc 2 - yours isn't.......

Disc 1 - my kit is accurate and 'high fidelity'.....

Disc 2 - yours isn't.......

Disc 1 - my kit is accurate and 'high fidelity'.....

Disc 2 - yours isn't.......

etc. etc. etc......


Get the idea....??? :-)

Good amps all sound the same do they?
 

"Stimpy" wrote in message
...
Stewart Pinkerton wrote:

Or, put it another way, what freely available/current make and model
amps would you regard as 'bad'....???

Any single-ended valve amp....., and IME, any amp costing less than
£200 - except from Richer Sounds!

Stewart, you post a lot of articles that make good sense and over my years
of lurking I've actually learned to treat your opinions with respect, even
if I don't agree with them, but that arrant ******** has destroyed any
credibility you had with me.



Strange, he's posted far worse ******** than that for a *long* time now -
what finally tripped your switch??