Good amps all sound the same do they?
 

On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 12:17:15 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:


"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 18:48:18 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 12:51:54 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:

Or, put it another way, what freely available/current make and model
amps
would you regard as 'bad'....???

Any single-ended valve amp....., and IME, any amp costing less than
£200 - except from Richer Sounds!

Wot a ****ing stoopid response - so *all* other amps not included in the
above meet with your personal approval, do they?

Not what I wrote at all. Clearly you have reading comprehension
problems.

Excuse me? Any amp *not* included in your 'bad amp' description is what,
then? (Use any words you think suitable - get help with the answer, if you
need to.....)

Might be good, might be bad - you only asked for a list of
*definitely* bad ones, not a comprehensive list of every bad amp on
the frikkin' planet!
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

Good amps all sound the same do they?
 

On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 10:49:27 +0100, "Mike Gilmour"
wrote:


"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
.. .
On 12 Oct 2004 21:10:08 GMT, ohawker (Andy
Evans) wrote:

And yes Keith, a few valve amps can indeed pass this fundamental test of
fidelity - but they're very expensive.
Think C-J Premier Eight and ARC VT-100 etc.

Don't lead Keith up the garden path here - the CJs are a Mullard circuit
dating
from a few centuries before Christ, with second rate choices of valves
(the
usual suspects like ECC**, EL34s, 6550s etc) and the ARC is no better, and
doesn't even have the luxury of the CJs polystyrene caps.

And what pray has this to do with them being sonically transparent?

For serious valve
sound start somewhere around Lamm ML1 and the Nagra PP 845 amp and then
start
getting better. I used to have a Prem, by the way.

The thing is, you don't *want* the amp to have a 'sound'. You are
offering the Lamm and Nagra as good *low-cost* alternatives to the C-J
and ARC?
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering


Umm now lets see... The Lamm is £18,600 a pair, the Nagra.. you know the
score...if you have to ask you really can't afford it! And imo Andy's
right, valve circuit design and especially component selection have come
along way since the days of the Eight (1992) and the VeeTee (1996). Though
neither is obtainable at Richer Sounds I'm afraid :-)

Oh Jeez, not another 'components are critical' geek! Valve amps have
not improved *at all* in about fifty years - they are still
second-rate compared to a well-designed SS amp of equivalent cost.
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

Good amps all sound the same do they?
 

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 10:49:27 +0100, "Mike Gilmour"
wrote:


"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
. ..
On 12 Oct 2004 21:10:08 GMT, ohawker (Andy
Evans) wrote:

And yes Keith, a few valve amps can indeed pass this fundamental test
of
fidelity - but they're very expensive.
Think C-J Premier Eight and ARC VT-100 etc.

Don't lead Keith up the garden path here - the CJs are a Mullard circuit
dating
from a few centuries before Christ, with second rate choices of valves
(the
usual suspects like ECC**, EL34s, 6550s etc) and the ARC is no better,
and
doesn't even have the luxury of the CJs polystyrene caps.

And what pray has this to do with them being sonically transparent?

For serious valve
sound start somewhere around Lamm ML1 and the Nagra PP 845 amp and then
start
getting better. I used to have a Prem, by the way.

The thing is, you don't *want* the amp to have a 'sound'. You are
offering the Lamm and Nagra as good *low-cost* alternatives to the C-J
and ARC?
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering


Umm now lets see... The Lamm is £18,600 a pair, the Nagra.. you know the
score...if you have to ask you really can't afford it! And imo Andy's
right, valve circuit design and especially component selection have come
along way since the days of the Eight (1992) and the VeeTee (1996).
Though
neither is obtainable at Richer Sounds I'm afraid :-)

Oh Jeez, not another 'components are critical' geek! Valve amps have
not improved *at all* in about fifty years - they are still
second-rate compared to a well-designed SS amp of equivalent cost.


Ay oop, Mike! There goes the 'geek' bogey!! Watch out - he's trying to wipe
it on you!!!

Told you, didn't I? :-))

Good amps all sound the same do they?
 

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 10:49:27 +0100, "Mike Gilmour"
wrote:


"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
...
On 12 Oct 2004 21:10:08 GMT, ohawker (Andy
Evans) wrote:

And yes Keith, a few valve amps can indeed pass this fundamental test
of
fidelity - but they're very expensive.
Think C-J Premier Eight and ARC VT-100 etc.

Don't lead Keith up the garden path here - the CJs are a Mullard
circuit
dating
from a few centuries before Christ, with second rate choices of valves
(the
usual suspects like ECC**, EL34s, 6550s etc) and the ARC is no better,
and
doesn't even have the luxury of the CJs polystyrene caps.

And what pray has this to do with them being sonically transparent?

For serious valve
sound start somewhere around Lamm ML1 and the Nagra PP 845 amp and then
start
getting better. I used to have a Prem, by the way.

The thing is, you don't *want* the amp to have a 'sound'. You are
offering the Lamm and Nagra as good *low-cost* alternatives to the C-J
and ARC?
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering


Umm now lets see... The Lamm is £18,600 a pair, the Nagra.. you know the
score...if you have to ask you really can't afford it! And imo Andy's
right, valve circuit design and especially component selection have come
along way since the days of the Eight (1992) and the VeeTee (1996).
Though
neither is obtainable at Richer Sounds I'm afraid :-)

Oh Jeez, not another 'components are critical' geek! Valve amps have
not improved *at all* in about fifty years - they are still
second-rate compared to a well-designed SS amp of equivalent cost.


Ay oop, Mike! There goes the 'geek' bogey!! Watch out - he's trying to
wipe it on you!!!

Told you, didn't I? :-))



Yep you did - mind you I'm still dazzled by the 'mental contructs' of
swapping out RS £1 coupling caps for £15 Jensen's - the vast sound
improvement must be totally in my mind..cos I paid extra...but they're not
even pretty to look at ;-) Maybe if I try double blind it'll all
disappear...which would be a crying shame :-)
I'll leave such testing to the real experts who work closely with designers
where such results are valid and not to wannabe's who think they know the
score...

Good amps all sound the same do they?
 

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 12:17:15 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:


"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
. ..
On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 18:48:18 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
m...
On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 12:51:54 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:

Or, put it another way, what freely available/current make and model
amps
would you regard as 'bad'....???

Any single-ended valve amp....., and IME, any amp costing less than
£200 - except from Richer Sounds!

Wot a ****ing stoopid response - so *all* other amps not included in the
above meet with your personal approval, do they?

Not what I wrote at all. Clearly you have reading comprehension
problems.

Excuse me? Any amp *not* included in your 'bad amp' description is what,
then? (Use any words you think suitable - get help with the answer, if you
need to.....)

Might be good, might be bad - you only asked for a list of
*definitely* bad ones, not a comprehensive list of every bad amp on
the frikkin' planet!


No, I just asked for a mention of some specific example of freely
available/current model amps as in:

"No, sorry, probably didn't make myself clear - I mean a *specific*
example(s) like 'Cyrus X', 'Quad Y', MF 'Z' or whatever....??"

How sodding hard was that???

Never mind now, I too have lost interest anyways....

Good amps all sound the same do they?
 

"Mike Gilmour" wrote


snip ****e


Yep you did - mind you I'm still dazzled by the 'mental contructs' of
swapping out RS £1 coupling caps for £15 Jensen's - the vast sound
improvement must be totally in my mind..cos I paid extra...but they're not
even pretty to look at ;-) Maybe if I try double blind it'll all
disappear...which would be a crying shame :-)
I'll leave such testing to the real experts who work closely with
designers where such results are valid and not to wannabe's who think they
know the score...


Mike, it's simple really - if you swapped the components out and perceived
(and prefer) a 'new and better sound' then that's *all* that counts. One of
the things the SS batallions don't like is how valvies *can* tweak a special
sound quality out of their amps and I think they feel a teeny bit left out
of it....

;-)

Good amps all sound the same do they?
 

Keith G wrote:

Mike, it's simple really - if you swapped the components out and perceived
(and prefer) a 'new and better sound' then that's *all* that counts. One of
the things the SS batallions don't like is how valvies *can* tweak a special
sound quality out of their amps and I think they feel a teeny bit left out
of it....

Exactly WHY cant people with any kind of crap amp tweak it to make a
different sound? SS or Valve ?

the people with essentially linear amps really dont have anything they
would WANT to change. they buy tone controls instead, giving them better
(or at least more easily configurable) choice...

Good amps all sound the same do they?
 

Oh Jeez, not another 'components are critical' geek! Valve amps have
not improved *at all* in about fifty years

Hello Stewart - depends on how many of your brain cells are still working 50
years later.

=== Andy Evans ===
Visit our Website:- http://www.artsandmedia.com
Audio, music and health pages and interesting links.

Good amps all sound the same do they?
 

Mike, it's simple really - if you swapped the components out and perceived (and
prefer) a 'new and better sound' then that's *all* that counts

In all the 234 posts in this thread the only fact I've come across is that a
large number of people are completely convinced that amps sound dfferent.

=== Andy Evans ===
Visit our Website:- http://www.artsandmedia.com
Audio, music and health pages and interesting links.

Good amps all sound the same do they?
 

Try to avoid ridiculous, meaningless phrases

Like "acoustically transparent"?

=== Andy Evans ===
Visit our Website:- http://www.artsandmedia.com
Audio, music and health pages and interesting links.