Good amps all sound the same do they?
 

"Ian Molton" wrote in message
...
Keith G wrote:

Mike, it's simple really - if you swapped the components out and
perceived (and prefer) a 'new and better sound' then that's *all* that
counts. One of the things the SS batallions don't like is how valvies
*can* tweak a special sound quality out of their amps and I think they
feel a teeny bit left out of it....

Exactly WHY cant people with any kind of crap amp tweak it to make a
different sound? SS or Valve ?

the people with essentially linear amps really dont have anything they
would WANT to change. they buy tone controls instead, giving them better
(or at least more easily configurable) choice...

Ah now I see:
Valve people tweak to make a different sound and.......
SS people tweak to give them better choice

Ever had thoughts of becoming a politician?

Good amps all sound the same do they?
 

Mike Gilmour wrote:

Ah now I see:
Valve people tweak to make a different sound and.......
SS people tweak to give them better choice

Thats not what I said at all...

Ever had thoughts of becoming a politician?

With aspergers syndrome? I laugh at you.

Good amps all sound the same do they?
 

"Andy Evans" wrote in message
...
Oh Jeez, not another 'components are critical' geek! Valve amps have
not improved *at all* in about fifty years

Hello Stewart - depends on how many of your brain cells are still working
50
years later.


Hate to say it, but I agree with him - my SET is based on a 1929
design......

:-)

Thinking on, I'm certain valves haven't got any better, possibly not
trannies also and I couldn't say about caps.... (????)

But one thing's for sure - the music hasn't got any better in the last 50
years....!!!

Good amps all sound the same do they?
 

"Andy Evans" wrote in message
...
Mike, it's simple really - if you swapped the components out and perceived
(and
prefer) a 'new and better sound' then that's *all* that counts

In all the 234 posts in this thread the only fact I've come across is that
a
large number of people are completely convinced that amps sound dfferent.


Gawd, I'm getting cornered into agreeing with the group's No.1 Loony
tonight, but I'm not sure that ss amps *do* sound different - they don't to
me, they all sound utterly boring (bland, planar, grey, veiled, gritty
etc, - goes without saying ;-). It's when amps are 'matched' (or
'mismatched') to speakers they get a bit interesting. There's all sorts of
mumbo-jumbo on the Net as to why this may be, but I don't a) believe any of
it, b) disbelieve any of it c) give a rat's about it and d) bother with
it....

Valve amps, OTOH, *do* sound different and AFAIAC it's a case of 'vive la
difference!'. Tweaking a bit of sound out of a valve amp/speaker combination
is a great part of the attraction to me. As someone stated just now - once
we get into the ballpark where a given sound is what *I* believe and expect
that sound to be I don't care too much about BS, notional 'accuracy' - I go
for *enjoying* what I hear.

Want an extreme example? - There are some people who will listen to 78s of,
say Caruso or Gobbi, on an acoustic gramaphone (albeit a high quality one)
and wouldn't thank you for anything else. Accurate? - A bit unlikely, but
probably *exactly* what they want to hear....!!

Catch my drift?

:-)

Good amps all sound the same do they?
 

On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 18:21:07 +0100, "Mike Gilmour"
wrote:


Yep you did - mind you I'm still dazzled by the 'mental contructs' of
swapping out RS £1 coupling caps for £15 Jensen's - the vast sound
improvement must be totally in my mind..cos I paid extra...but they're not
even pretty to look at ;-) Maybe if I try double blind it'll all
disappear...which would be a crying shame :-)

Ain't reality a bitch? :-)

I'll leave such testing to the real experts who work closely with designers
where such results are valid and not to wannabe's who think they know the
score...

The test works equally well for amateurs, the main difference is that
they don't seem to *want* to know..............

Now, if you were designing an ADC and wanted to know how to minimise
pedestal voltage, then your choice of capacitor would indeed be
critical, but for audio coupling capacitors? Just a slightly more
technical form of 'cable sound', i.e. lots of technobabble but never
been proved in dbts - even by Walt Jung. Choice of *dielectric* can
sometimes make a difference, but 'audiophile' capacitors are just so
much smoke and mirrors. IIRC, Doug Self went to the trouble of
building two top-quality amps which only varied by the use of all
'audiophile' components in one of them. Totally indistiguishable in
listening tests, but about ten times difference in parts cost!
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

Good amps all sound the same do they?
 

On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 19:11:14 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:

"Mike Gilmour" wrote

I'm still dazzled by the 'mental contructs' of
swapping out RS £1 coupling caps for £15 Jensen's - the vast sound
improvement must be totally in my mind..cos I paid extra...but they're not
even pretty to look at ;-) Maybe if I try double blind it'll all
disappear...which would be a crying shame :-)
I'll leave such testing to the real experts who work closely with
designers where such results are valid and not to wannabe's who think they
know the score...

Mike, it's simple really - if you swapped the components out and perceived
(and prefer) a 'new and better sound' then that's *all* that counts.

Even if it doesn't really exist? :-)

One of
the things the SS batallions don't like is how valvies *can* tweak a special
sound quality out of their amps and I think they feel a teeny bit left out
of it....

No, what any sensible audiophile tries to do is *remove* all the
'sound quality' from their amplifiers. Anything else is just a tone
control that you can't switch off.................
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

Good amps all sound the same do they?
 

On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 23:20:53 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:

Want an extreme example? - There are some people who will listen to 78s of,
say Caruso or Gobbi, on an acoustic gramaphone (albeit a high quality one)
and wouldn't thank you for anything else. Accurate? - A bit unlikely, but
probably *exactly* what they want to hear....!!

That's not *quite* as daft as it sounds, since the records were
produced with that replay equipment in mind. In the same vein, the
best experience of watching 'Casablanca' and 'Blonde Venus' I ever had
was in the Brattle Theatre in Cambridge MA, which has a pukka 4:3
'silver screen' and a pair of 'Voice of the Theater' speakers, just
like the director would have used to view the film.

Catch my drift?

We know that you're seriously adrift, but you keep missing the
lifelines! :-)
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

Good amps all sound the same do they?
 

On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 22:52:53 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:


"Andy Evans" wrote in message
...
Oh Jeez, not another 'components are critical' geek! Valve amps have
not improved *at all* in about fifty years

Hello Stewart - depends on how many of your brain cells are still working 50
years later.

Mine seem to be functioning OK after 56......... :-)

Hate to say it, but I agree with him - my SET is based on a 1929
design......

Which is a shame, since P-P designs were available by then! :-)

Thinking on, I'm certain valves haven't got any better, possibly not
trannies also and I couldn't say about caps.... (????)

But one thing's for sure - the music hasn't got any better in the last 50
years....!!!

Regrettably, that does indeed seem to be the case! Where's the
genuinely *new* music, instead of retro this, tribute that, and
horribly overproduced crap from talentless 'pop idles'? :-(

As noted by a recording engineer with reference to her Lowness Queen
Victoria of the Chavettes, " with modern studio tools, you can make
Mickey Mouse sound good".........
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

Good amps all sound the same do they?
 

Kurt Hamster wrote:

Perhaps it was just an AS moment then?

I cant have an AS moment. Im AS all the time.

Ever had thoughts of becoming a politician?

With aspergers syndrome? I laugh at you.

Depends on where in the spectrum you are doesn't it?

No.

Good amps all sound the same do they?
 

In article , Andy Evans
wrote:
Mike, it's simple really - if you swapped the components out and
perceived (and prefer) a 'new and better sound' then that's *all* that
counts

In all the 234 posts in this thread the only fact I've come across is
that a large number of people are completely convinced that amps sound
dfferent.

I would have put this 'fact' slightly differently.

My impression is that many people think that some amps can sound different
to other amps - particularly in some circumstances of use. Hence in some
circumstances differences may be likely, and in other perhaps not.

However only a subset of these people think that most/all amps sound
different to one another under most/all conditions of use. I haven't
noticed anyone saying that they think that one amp *never* sounds different
to another.

Since people beleive all kinds of things, often contradictory, the only
conclusions I can draw from this so far as that some amps can produce a
different sound to others, and this may vary with circumstances. This does
not seem to me to be a particularly startling discovery. :-)

My personal experience, though, is that the amps I tend to prefer, used in
the circumstances I prefer, all tend to sound either very similar or
indistinguishably. Given this, I must admit that I wonder what all the fuss
is about - despite having made a living in the past designing the damn
things. ;-

I'd rather worry about the loudspeakers, room acoustics, and the way
recordings or broadcasts are made. My experience is that these usually
matter a lot more and can be real pains to get anything near 'right'.

Slainte,

Jim

--
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